The undead are beings who have died and become trapped between life and death. One of the consequences of the involvement of Void in the undead’s metaphysics is that they only feel faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli. This is also why the Light is so painful to their existence. The dark energy serves as a buffer that prevents the souls of the undead from properly joining their bodies. As a result, their souls are imperfectly attached to them.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void#Effects_on_beings
Last Paragraph.
In conclusion, it must burn void entities, too.
Even if you disagree with me that Void Elves cannot cast light, this is undeniably true for them as well:
For the undead (and Forsaken), this requires such a great deal of willpower that it is exceedingly rare, especially since it is self-destructive. When undead channel the Light, it feels (to them) as if their entire bodies are being consumed in righteous fire. Forsaken healed by the Light (whether the healer is Forsaken or not) are effectively cauterized by the effect: sure, the wound is healed, but the healing effect is cripplingly painful. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ask_CDev
The situation with Alleria and Turalyon only confirms this.
What source are you referring to in particular?
The void elves are cleary void-sided and Alleria said she doesn’t walk the light’s path.
This thread discusses whether Blizzard ignored established lore. So you cannot use that as an example. It would be a circular argument.
The argument that Void Elves cannot cast light is based on a conclusion drawn from lore about the requirements to use light magic. If they’re not fulfilled, they shouldn’t be able to do it, even if it is not explicitly stated. If they do so without a satisfactory explanation, then the accusation that Blizzard is ignoring its own lore is justified.
The requirements are:
A special kind of training Learning to wield this healing force takes years of discipline, as it is necessary to learn to abnegate oneself through meditation, in order to become conduits for the Light. https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Holy
No Paladin Class Trainer would train a Void Elf because they’re blasphemers in their eyes (cathedral greetings)
Abnegating entails giving up one’s own interests and desires, including the desire to control or understand the void.
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A special state of mind (added via edit) Calling on the Light requires concentration, calm, and significant mental acuity. The more frightened, frustrated, or foggy the mind is, the more difficult or even impossible it is to use holy magic. A paralyzing poison or gas can temporarily restrict the focus of the mind, thus preventing the connection to the Light. https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Holy#Characteristics
Try this with being schizophrenic at same time:
Since the shadow energies transformed them and opened their minds to the madness of the Void, the void elves constantly hear whispers that seek to corrupt them, something they have learned to fight against and keep control over. This assault is relentless and the discipline needed to resist them is extraordinary as the Void seeks to strip away the void elves of their flesh and their mortality, so that they may become slaves to the shadow’s all-consuming hunger. https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Void_elf#Appearance_and_characteristics
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strong willpower & the belief to be good As long as they believe their cause to be just, the Light will continue to serve them because wielding the Light is a matter of willpower and faith in one’s own ability to do it. Since he felt conflicted, Arthas Menethil’s ability to use the Light began to wane after he culled Stratholme. He perceived this as the Light choosing to abandon him, which weakened his faith in it further. https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Holy#Uses_and_powers
Noble cause corruption: Even if you use evil powers for good, you are still dealing with evil powers. Is the void an evil power in the eyes of the void elves? Yes it is: The void Its very nature is detrimental to life and sanity. (Locus-Walker to Alleria, audio drama, page 36)
The void elves are fully aware of their pact with the devil, since they need to to resist the whispers. The moment they believe the void isn’t bad, their name turns red. If they let go of the void in the process, we might as well call them High Elves right away and save us the trouble.
The essence of the class fantasy of a paladin, or a morally good character, is that he doesn’t use evil methods to accomplish his goals. A Paladin who violates his own dogma by torturing his opponent with mindflaying spells, allowing the Void to consume souls, or summoning a Lovecraftian evil to save the world is ridiculous. The moment he does that he’s no paladin anymore. You can’t justify that as good, under no circumstances, if you accepted the light before (which is a prerequisite to cast it). This is a question of alignment (ethical and moral perspective), not cosmology. And it’s precisely the involvement of the Void that makes this case so different from the Scarlet Crusade.
But hey, if you’re able to justify it without using the word “somehow” or creating another me’dan, be my guest. If you manage to do that, I’ll take my hat off.
Of course, the Blood Knight method still exists. On second thought, I don’t see anything of substance to contradict it. But it would be strange for the Alliance and blood elves to tolerate that.
If the written lore contradicts the gameplay, then there is a gameplay/story segregation. Ad nauseam doesn’t change that.
If one lore source contradicts another, there is a retcon or a continuity error.
Disc priests (who were only referred to as users of both in the legion preview, never before) are the latter, because acting evil for pragmatism results in the Arthas treatment, as previously explained. Their supposed dogma is equivalent to the forgotten shadow (= shadow priests). That doesn’t fit either.
Aside from that, I’m not even sure if there isn’t a minor retcon here. After all, this was just a preview, and the Discipline Priest’s artifact weapon was a Scarlet Crusade-style light weapon. The disc is a healer using lightshields all the time. So…
So you’re thinking it’s the default?
Because three cases of this “cycle” have been demonstrated in Nagrand, Auchindoun, and Sunwell Plateau (K’ure, D’ore, and M’uru, respectively), players may have received the wrong impression with regard to the magnitude and rarity of these events: it is EXCEEDINGLY rare for a naaru to fall into a void state, and even rarer for a fallen naaru to be brought back into the Light. A naaru’s fall into the void represents a catastrophic loss for the naaru and for the forces of the Light, and it is the saddest, most heart-wrenching event for the naaru to witness. Conversely, a naaru being reborn into the Light brings renewed hope and sense of purpose to every naaru; if energy beings could weep tears of joy, this would do it. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ask_CDev
Doesn’t sound like that to me.
Speculation. We’ll see.
It appears that you became perplexed as to the actual meaning of those terms. What is the distinction between a Wild God whose anima capsule I destroyed and one I did not?
I looked it up again. My source here was out of date. I withdraw this point.
(However, it raises the question of what happened to the Broken on Argus.)
In my opinion it remains a stupid concept. If light and void could be combined at the same time, then the whole conflict would be completely superfluous.
Alleria and Turalyon can touch just fine lol. In Shadows Rising, they both touch. I believe the instance in A Thousand Years of War was just because Alleria had not yet fully commanded her new powers, and it volatility manifested in her mega void form. Years later, they can touch just fine.
Which implies that Void elves could use the light just fine unless they’re in a mega void form…but Idk if any of them have one like Alleria does because they didn’t fully absorb a whole Void naaru like she did lol. They just need proper control and discipline which is kind of the entire point of the Void Elf story, and the point of Paladins/Disc Priests in general lol.
Anyways we have a Velf Paladin and Velf Disc priest in Telogrus now and all have dialogue about using the light and void together so Blizz can make the lore whatever they want lol it’s their intellectual property and IP
Void and Light are two sides of the same coin after all. It’s kind of what the entire principle of Discipline Priest as a class/spec is based on lol
Arator is even being set up as some kind of Void Light Paladin combination in the new short story IMO. Lightforged Paladin father and Void-infused mother, and he has new tattoos on his arms, one black dragon and one light dragon.
Light and void exploding is a bit far fetched to me. The Twisting Nether and fel exist as a result of the light and void bleeding together. Are all the void mobs in TWW going to blow up when I hit them with my spells? This is up there with undead light wielders.
Also like…Azeroth is very clearly being set up to be born infused with multiple if not all of the cosmic forces lol. She’s gonna have Void and Light in her and I don’t think she’s gonna explode lol
I’ve given up on the lore many xpacs ago. Right now, I only live for the gameplay and I say yes to Void Elf Paladin, most of us will play a “High Elf” Paladin anyway, however, I want a Night Elf Paladin even more. Will be nice to give more classes Shaman too.
Forsaken have been Holy Priests since 2004 so eh. We got Lighforged Draenei warlocks now too! I’m whatever about this kind of thing, because though I enjoy Warcraft’s worldbuilding I also appreciate players having the ability to be their own kind of special snowflake character-wise. I know things like Forsaken Holy Priests and Lightforged Shadow Priests might have been worldbuilding concessions for the sake of gameplay, but, those concessions mean they’re still part of the game at the end of the day. Being reductive I think anyone who taps into the holy light as a priest should be able to be a paladin too in theory.
Well, I believe this is yet another inconsistency / soft retcon.
She absorbed the Naaru in the Argus Patch.
“A thousand years of war” was before that. No void form until then.
If even touching her causes pain, what happens when she gets the full brunt of the light (in her void form)?
At that moment, the cube opened with an explosion, allowing Nether-Prince Durzaan - the corrupt ethereal who had stalked Alleria and made an attempt to claim the Sunwell to surge into Telogrus. Durzaan immediately began a spell to capture and corrupt Umbric and his followers, binding them in an attempt to transform the elvesinto creatures of the void. Displaying her fortitude, neither Durzaan’s power nor his offers to share it were enough to sway Alleria’s resolve, as she made clear to Umbric that the whispers are not to be trusted. Alleria succeeded in killing Durzaan, and while their minds and souls were still their own,the sin’dorei had been transformed by the ritual: now, having consumed the void as Alleria had, they had achieved new powers as well as a dangerous susceptibility to its whispers. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Void_elf#Birth_of_the_ren'dorei
They have blue skin and tentacles for a reason. It’s worse for them because, unlike Alleria, they can’t switch it off. And of course, there is also this racial proc.
The evidence presented here is that the light basically burns Void Elves like undead. The reasons they should not be able to cast it are different. I have explained this in detail in my last post, which you have completly ignored for some reason.
Oh. Where’s the disc priest? And it seems like the paladin is a high elven paladin trying to get warm with the void (the quoted dialogue is clear in this respect), which should consequently end with her losing her light powers and becoming some kind of void paladin. Quite possible too, isn’t it?
You’re right. And I can kindly criticise them for their inconsistency.
Food for thought: If it is not written by Metzen himself, it is de facto just fan fiction - albeit with a ‘authorised’ stamp. De facto authorship and Intellectual property are not the same thing. One is factual, while the other is legal. Keep this always in mind when someone is scribbling in a story and crossing out passages that someone else has created.
Try to watch both sides of a coin at the same time without cheating.
You won’t win an argument with a half-baked idiom.
Speculation. But yeah, another edgy med’an inc. That’s exactly what Warcraft needs.
I would like to point out very kindly that this type of storytelling isn’t that loved.
Keep the anmie stuff in the animes pls.
Blue skin is not permanent void form lmao. Alleria looks very unnatural in her Void form. Pure black skin, glowing white hair and glowing void eyes. Standard Velf blue skin and hair is just a result of long term exposure. Alleria’s hair is starting to turn blue-black in War Within.
Racials are not canon lore they are game mechanics lol
I ignored it because it literally does not matter LOL Blizz can do whatever they want and they have. There is a Void Elf Paladin and Disc Priest in Telogrus Rift now. Womp womp. The end.
Metzen has been back writing at Blizz for a while now, the Worldsoul Saga is his story. This is Metzen lore.
No. It’s the direct result of Nether-Prince Durzaans transforming spell. Were you somehow asleep while doing the quest?
Stage 9: Power of the Voidforge
Voidforges shut down x3
Nether-Prince Durzaan says: The void will transform you… awaken what you were meant to be. Alleria Windrunner says: No. These people are not yours. They are not lost. Nether-Prince Durzaan says: Do you not see what we offer? The majesty of chaos… the glory of infinite hunger! Nether-Prince Durzaan says: Why do you fight your destiny, Windrunner? Join me and rule by my side! Alleria Windrunner says: I see through your lies, Durzaan. So will the others. Nether-Prince Durzaan says: So be it. Your death is regrettable… but necessary.
Final Stage: Stop the Transformation
Defeat the Nether-Prince Nether-Prince Durzaan says: I offer freedom. I offer strength. Cast off your mortal shackles. Alleria Windrunner says: Our destiny is our own, Durzaan! You will not define our future!
At 35%:
Nether-Prince Durzaan says: The transformation… incomplete… must be finished… Alleria Windrunner says: The only thing that will be finished here… is you.
Victory: Magister Umbric says: Alleria… … My people are free, but we have been… changed. And the voices… Alleria Windrunner says: Durzaan tried to tear away your mortality. To make you like him–a slave to his hunger. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Telogrus_Rift_(quest)
Fair enough. So I guess that applies to light spells as well, inculding holy forsaken priests in vanilla.
It does matter for the question: “Does Blizzard ignore it’s own, prievously etablished lore?” This is exactly what is being discussed here. Don’t ignore the thread’s topic.
I still have doubts about this, as she appears to have only recently appeared in Telogrus. Besides: No blue skin = no actual void elf. See quest about transforming and stuff above.
Name?
We’ll see. Voidlight Everdawn could be also the deed of a single quest designer. When the orcs got their priests, they were given new titles based on threads & feedback like this one. This could be a similiar situation. Above all, plans to introduce new classes for other races are currently “on hold”.
You must have been asleep for this week’s patch which introduced canon new Void Elves with partially natural hair or skin and partially Velf hair or skin lol. Including those named “Rift Wardens” which is a VOID ELF task force and they have the Void elf echo-y voice despite their normal skin colors. And “Void Elf Initiates” who have normal skin but blue hair and purple eyes.
You are literally ignoring canon developments of anything that doesn’t suit the narrative in your head lol
Just because a Nether-Prince was able to accelerate the physical transformation on the original group of Ren’dorei doesn’t mean that’s the only way to become a Void Elf lol. We’ve had High Elf and Blood Elf NPCs in Telgorus for years studying the Void with Locus Walker and clear it’s worked as they’ve replaced with new Void Elfs in the updated Telogrus.
Blizzard can change the lore as many times as they want. Again, womp womp
That’s not true LOL and the Velf Paladin literally has blue skin and tentacles in her hair loool
Voidlight Everdawn…? She is a Priest who talks about using the Light and the Void and uses the new Priest Hero Talent casting animations. And she uses the Void Elf echo-y voice so yes she is a Void Elf despite having blonde hair and fair skin still.
You seriously need to take a step back and realize the lore team and writers clearly are going in a different direction than the one you are trying to force and that you don’t have a say in it lol…it’s getting weird…
Stop here. Read carefully. What am I responding to in particular?
Speculation~
But it’s surely possible.
Ah! My bad, sorry. When you mentioned the Paladin, I assumed you were talking about Voidlight. I just scrolled through the dialogues, and she was the only one discussing the light. Didn’t think of Aeonara because she had nothing to say about it. Of course, including the combat animations creates a completely different picture.
/giggle
No, you’re right here. I withdraw this point.
I’m not trying to “force” anything or anyone. They can write whatever they want and make as many narrative errors as they want. Really - no big deal. I’m just saying that their new lore conflicts with the etablished canon (yes, canon. Not headcanon. There were class restrictions for a reason) and I’m criticising it. That’s it. Call it feedback, my two cents, whatever. But I’m certainly not alone in this.
Old Gods are also dubiously “pure void” they’re aberrant monstrosities that have some will of their own that exist purely to corrupt and make things worse. Void Lords are… Pretty much entirely undefined by the lore at this point.
Common misconception.
She doesn’t think she can.
every argument about this is circular because people put forth evidence the other side says isn’t valid and is a continuity error/misinterpreted/wrong.
Because everyone we hear about the light and void from are unreliable narrators.
good thing it’s not rewriting, it’s adding context to biased perspectives.
Shame you can’t.
Literally the guy in the writing room right now for this very questline.
are we disregarding the lore behind it’s existence because it functions as a gameplay tool?
Because we have a lot of lore to remove if that’s the case.
That’s not really what it’s written to be before, so now we have two retcons to work through. So new writers came and said “Oh light hurts undead because void” and now metzen is back and changing it back to what it used to be?
This lore has always bothered me, and doesn’t seem like it was well thought out. I mean- a gas that makes you unable to use the light??? What? Utter nonsense. The legion would be using that en-mass against the army of the light if that was a thing.
Does it matter? Couldn’t you argue the reverse for Void Elf paladins?
Because they have opposing goals, not opposing natures.
The Light wants order. The Void wants chaos.
The Light sees a single future, a single possibility and holds that up as the true destiny of all things. That’s what Xera does to Illidan, trying to force him into the destiny the Light wrote for him.
The Void sees ALL possibilities, every possible variation of everything, and deems them all equally viable. The ones where you’re a hero are just as valuable and “right” as the ones where you become a gibbering madman killing all your friends and family in cold blood for giggles.
Complete an utter order versus total mindless, violent anarchy. The light is not “Law” and the void is not “Freedom”. The Light is complete obedience of everything and anything. The Void is about complete and rampant anarchy and a lack of rules entirely.
That’s the twist that’s happened multiple times. The Light has been shown to be evil in many ways since Legion.
Take your crack addict elf simping to the high elf threads and be wrong there. This topic doesn’t need derailing into horde babies crying about Void Elves existing and not being able to say the only REAL High Elves are the completely different species that the Horde has for marketing purposes.