It’s just weird to me that diversity is only about blood elves but not high elves considering there was a random NPC update to SL.
Of course, I hope like you that there will be more diversity for the new void elf NPCs that will be added.
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I find Blizzard often works in half measures. They’re not thinking as deep as we are about all of this.
Blood Elves are a part of their respective faction. They’re commonly found and are the majority of the Reliquary. Makes sense they’re finding all sorts of new npcs with new options, while high elves themselves aren’t being updated. They’ve always been small in number Alliance wise, save for when the Silver Covenant was involved and they’re just not here right now, but once they are I’m sure they’ll find new diverse showings as well.
Void Elves though are a part of the Alliance directly these days. So I’m glad we’re seeing them. I just wish we’d see more diverse options as well there… Be real nice to have at least obvious void elves that are Allerian in design and plenty more of the Umbrician and mixes. Maybe a blurb to indicate they learned from Locus-Walker and absorbed some sort of Void entity to follow in Alleria’s path?
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Finally, there aren’t really many new VE NPCs but that’s to be expected as they aren’t relevant at the moment compared to blood elves.
The only void elf NPC that has non-void customization is Zeldis.
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There is no need to interpret, again, it has been settled. Morgan Day was already asked by Wowhead back when the blue eyes were added to both Void Elves and Blood Elves, and he responded that they decided to give both groups “High Elf customizations” as it was represented in both factions (Alliance & Horde). Then he stated they gave some customizations for now and would do more later.
Which we saw them follow through with on when they added blonde/red/black/white/brown hair to Void Elves. To give more “High Elf customization” that he mentioned from that Wowhead interview.
I don’t think you can speak for anyone besides yourself in this regard, we don’t see forum threads upon threads about High Elves anymore. The “many High Elf fans” are pretty much satisfied by having the High Elf customizations given to Void Elves and thus are spending their time enjoying the customizations, not imho nitpicking over various NPC variations or nonexistent NPC variations.
Yes they are, they said it when the interviews happened after the Shadowlands customizations were revealed that this will help them also add diversity to the NPCs of the same race. If you didn’t catch that then that’s your own issue. You can look it up.
You’re bringing up points that the developers have already answered so if you’re not misunderstanding then you’re disagreeing with the developer answers.
Since that’s the case there is truly nothing more to be said here.
Sorry that their answers do not align with your wants, High Elf fans had to deal with that before as well so I understand.
No one is wondering though, just some people making bad faith arguments. If you are aware that the developers had already commented they’re going to utilize the extra customization options to add diversity to their NPCs as well then creating a Void Elf that fits all the specificities that Lightcrown wants when they could simply plunk in a premade High Elf NPC is wasted effort.
Like Allerio points out, whenever they add a frankly obvious “High Elf NPC” (aka they have the NE greetings with BE combat sounds) it’s 99% the iconic blue eyes, fair skin, blonde hair. They don’t go out of their way to add variety there because High Elves are still rare and not a dime a dozen relative to other race NPCs, so just by adding an NPC High Elf it is adding diversity itself.
Whereas say for Blood Elf NPCs, vast majority have had green eyes, fair skin, and normal hair colors since their inception. So what is the way to add diversity within Blood Elves? You have to change either their skin tone, or their eyes, that’s pretty much it.
It’s also a two-fold topic, there’s the diversity within each race and there’s diversity within the faction themselves. Alliance has a plethora (relatively speaking) of iconic looking High Elf NPCs. So there’s less of a purpose to adding Void Elf NPCs looking like them.
But to be honest you pretty much hit the nail on the head here
From my pov, only Lightcrown is here having an almost worrisome concern over their own self appointed need for validating character customization options in the NPCs.
I do not see the “many High Elf fans” numerously posting and/or creating threads about this apparent need for validating customization options, despite them trying to make it seem that way.
I see none of the High Elf regulars and I have been involved with the HE customization requests since the old forum style threads.
None of the regulars are concerned over this unlike the one poster. It doesn’t sound like some genuine concern, just honestly starts to sound like a very roundabout way to state High Elf customizations aren’t ‘canon’ on Alliance side despite Morgan Day literally calling them that and then us seeing them following up on it with the addition of the normal hair colors.
I’m all for giving someone the benefit of doubt but some things are making it obvious it’s not so genuine. Like not wanting to go and ask Steve Danuser himself how come we haven’t seen an NPC Void Elf with full on High Elf customization like the players have been allowed to have.
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There is also the new black talon VE npc that works for Wrathion (I am still leveling through Dragonflight so I forget her name) who doesn’t have void tentacles in her hair.
And then they plopped in a stock Void Elf NPC in those black robes from Stormwind in the Ohn’ara Plains that talks to the Consortium guy (no actual chatter or anything just made to look like they’re conversing).
But the fact that they added a stock NPC Void Elf there, but created a more unique one in Stormwind (the female VE with blonde hair and blue eyes), kinda shows they’re just trying to add variety of NPCs peppered throughout without a whole lot of thought put into it.
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Talonstalker Kavia 
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What’s more interesting is that these NPCs come in different heights, if you pay close attention. You can especially see this with the Pandaren.
Thank you! I also knew she was using the new High Elf eyes too but wasn’t too sure so didn’t include it in my comment!
Also I like her personality haha, glad they added her in as a new bodyguard/agent.
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I think you’re assuming they’re bad faith arguments. Blizzard has gone out of their way to only add Umbrician void elves, with some minor allowances with haircolor and tentacle toggle. So, I’m wondering, for one, if they intend to expand that. Its something I want to see in fact and I find myself rather frustrated that they’re not expanding it.
Morgan Day said they were adding in the options for players to play what they want, but that doesn’t really indicate the canonical viewpoint of what is and isn’t a void elf physically or if they’re considering those to be canonical to the void elves. They want players to enjoy themselves and thats wonderful, but they should, at least imo, show these options as canonical to the void elves preferably with either suggestions or indications that are clear that new void elves can be made, are being made, and can come out with Allerian and Umbrician qualities as well as a mix. To some thats important information and something we’d like to see happen.
So just talking about it and trying to find that info isn’t immediately a bad faith argument. And I don’t really think Lightcrown is trying to be bad faith here.
Minor aside, but I wish they’d add their own voicelines for the high elves… Always kinda thought they should have had their own back in Wrath. lol
Also in no way do I agree with this. Thats not adding diversity thats just copy pasting. High Elves deserve to have a wider gambit of options just like void elves or blood elves do.
Nothing in high elf lore indicates they’re limited in any way.
They’re not the only one. I want to see those options expanded, and I know many others who do as well.
And I can guarantee you that the reasons run the gambit of just wanting to see these things represented to honestly wanting the options to be clearly canon without any vague suggestions so that we don’t need to even remotely have the arguments anymore to just flat out wanting the lore for void elves expanded.
The High elf debates are just so frought its hard sometimes to feel like one can just talk. From the first day that I arrived I was yelled at for the suggestion that high elf options could be added to void elves, something that actually ended up happening, so I understand that a range of the community who might otherwise have spoken about such thoughts concepts or concerns would generally fall away over time.
I find its the opposite. The goal of wanting to see these things added is to ensure they are canon, both just in general and also because making them canon can add to our lore which is at best light. Cause right now we have options for players sake and not a whole lot else.
I dream of seeing these things made canon and obviously so, so that one I don’t have to request it anymore, and two the ever present annoying hope that if they do they’ll add some actual lore to explain how new void elves are made and it will be glorious and allow for all types of void elf to be canonical and not have anyone who can say otherwise.
Sadly he has been less than helpful in the past… And if you ever get him to respond do let me know. I’d love to have more in no uncertain terms from him on the matter.
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We also have a very weird situation now where it feels like Blizz is unsure of what exactly they want to do with Alliance Elves. I think they’re in a limbo where they’re not sure if they want them to be High Elves or Void Elves. And seemingly where they can’t make a fine middle to show them both off. I mean even in the patch that had old god themes the Void Elves did nothing. So if there’s not going to be any development into the Void aspect, it makes it even more of a waste that they weren’t High Elves from the start.
If we would have had High Elves from the start than they as a race would have been more unique from Blood Elves than we got with Void Elves. If they had gone off of a lot of player concepts such as the High Elves having a unique model.
Some of this could still be corrected. They could still tweak some Void Elf animations or even their stance to add some differentiation. This wouldn’t be entirely out of the realm of possibility given a while back they changed the Mechagnome swimming animation.
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There’s this high elf from the kirin tor who needs help (bonus objective).
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If we go by popularity, then the Alliance High Elves clearly win by a landslide. But this was always to be expected. They have no choice but cater to both groups now, with favoring the Void Elves, which is the “main race”.
This will not happen, because this will only end in another conflict within the players who want to play Silvermoon High Elves on Alliance grounds.
I believe the last part of your sentence is a red herring. Because the discussion originally from Lightcrown wasn’t that “can a Void Elf look like a High Elf NPC?” it was that “Hey Blood Elves are having NPCs with blue eyes to canonize High Elves as a part of them, how come Void Elves are not as well?”
Which honestly that original inquiry from them is fallacious as again, the purpose of adding that diversity isn’t to canonize anything per Blizzard, it’s just to allow more diversity among NPCs.
That’s my main disagreement with Lightcrown, that the purpose of NPC customizations using player ones is “making things canon”. It’s not. There is still only one sole surviving Dark Troll in BFA, despite player Trolls getting access to Dark Troll skin tones.
There is no lore make up that Wildhammer Dwarves have subsumed into Bronzebeards being their authoritative figures.
None of that has occurred with any race given their additional customizations that have occurred since Shadowlands.
And as for the portion of what Morgan Day states, his basis for why those options were added was that the High Elf race was not represented on player characters. He’s not saying anything about them not existing amongst NPCs, and he actually admits High Elves as being a race in game that wasn’t represented in player options.
So he’s actually confirming that NPC wise, High Elves exist aka they’re portrayed/shown/displayed whichever status helps someone understand that they already are part of NPCs. Only not the players.
This is the point I’m trying to drive home. It’s why you won’t see a straight up NPC Void Elf made to look like the very specific picture of a High Elf NPC - because they can just plop in a stock High Elf NPC instead.
Again, it’s already shown in Dragonflight at Forkriver Crossing in Ohn’ara Plains, there’s multiple of the exact same Void Elf male NPCs there with the exact clothing and customizations. Why? Because they simply just wanted to add some Void Elves there.
They’re not purposely going through every single minutiae of character customization and thinking “hey these options or this thematic isn’t represented on this NPC race, let’s add it in to canonize it.”
Also here is the interview and full question and quote from Morgan Day, showing the basis of the customizations added to players is because
- High Elves already exist in game
- It’s not represented by player options
According to a dev interview Ion gave several months ago, Blood Elves were originally unintended to have blue eyes in Shadowlands, but later on that decision was reversed following team discussions. If the art department was involved, what was the reasoning that led to blue eyes being added for Void Elves and Blood Elves?
This is another place where there was a race, High Elves, in the game which hadn’t really been represented on player characters. Blood Elves were the closest, but had felt green eyes. It was an opportunity where we had a number of elven races, and we could tie it back to their roots, letting players choose where they want to align and what fantasy to play out. We did have a lot of discussion about it, ultimately we might do more in the future, but for now we’re providing the option to have a few High Elf customizations available.
Bolded emphasis mine. I want to provide the full context. I can understand it’s been some time since it’s happened.
But honestly I will hang it up here. There’s not really a point to rehashing what’s already been answered by the developers.
I don’t have it in me to find the quote around the Shadowlands customization reveal for NPC diversity but, I’m also over looking up previous news and sources for others who either are or are not as involved in these discussions and then post matter-of-fact takes as if they know what the devs are doing when it’s simply their own take that is their own issue.
The different NPC looks aren’t meant to canonize anything, there has been no story movement added to these races in-game once all the diverse NPCs were added and player options were added as that was never their intent or purpose in the first place.
EDIT: And to clarify, my point is it’s pretty futile to discuss, that’s what I was trying to drive home. You can’t make up a conclusion not supported by the development team and then wonder why they aren’t supporting your conclusion, it does not make sense.
Seeing a Darkspear with Dark Troll or Sand Troll customization does not mean Dark Trolls are no longer almost extinct nor that Sand Trolls have joined the Darkspears.
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When the people that wanted Alliance HE came up with different models, the people that were ‘anti HE’ said no way are you going to get a custom model when WE (aka Blood Elves are the ‘main race’. So yeah it wouldn’t happen because imagine the uproar of an Allied Race getting a say Kalec-like makeover over the base race.
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See this is why folk ask. There is nothing saying thats a Dark Troll skin tone. Or that its meant to represent the Dark Trolls.
Players just kinda assumed that.
And I don’t think its saying that. Its saying players have the option. It doesn’t say anything about whether or not those are canon to void elves or that they represent void elves. Just high elves.
This is fair entirely.
My main interest of course is in making canon those things which we haven’t seen from Blizzard. I want it canonized and shown in lore. (Though not to do anything to those who want to play their high elves thats for them to decide and nothing that shows up in game should dissuade them in that regard. Your character is yours.)
I agree, it is futile to bother having a particular discussion in the long run but I do think it should be fair to talk about.
I also don’t read it the same way you do, because Blizzard never actually said those were meant to represent those things. Players did.
The only time I saw Blizzard really mention any of it was with high elf options to be available to those who wanted to play high elves and with the Wildhammer.
I still haven’t actually seen anything said about the trolls myself and all their new tones are well within standard jungle troll ranges. People just kinda assumed. (Which again I want to stress is great. Let players play what they want.)
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Part of my head is still living in the AU where Alleria went to train her army from WC2 how to use the Void and we got a good mix of options from the start and built upon that.
They could have even tweaked the Umbric story in there as an impatient student or something so he had some actual history prior to his introduction.
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Danuser made mention of it when talking about Wildhammer Dwarves, he included Darkspear in his answer.
Q: In the dwarf starting area, you are very much a Bronzebeard dwarf. That’s quite explicit in the story that’s being told there when you start a dwarf character. With the introduction of something like the Wildhammer tattoos, which obviously make you look like a Wildhammer, are you a Wildhammer if you use those tattoos?
A: It’s a little complex because we asked ourselves the question of, we have these really cool options like Wildhammer tattoos, but does that mean we need to make a Wildhammer starting experience? If we give trolls skin options that look like other troll tribes besides Darkspear, does that mean we have to make new starting experiences for them as well? The onus of that would’ve meant that we couldn’t do these things because that would be so much time and would consume so many resources to be able to do that, that it just wouldn’t have been practical for us to do. And so then the question is, do we limit the options that we give players because of some storyline concern, or resource concern, or anything like that? And we said, no. We’re not gonna’ do that. So while we’re not gonna’ give you a dedicated Wildhammer starting experience if you pick those tattoos, the freedom should be there in your mind to roleplay your character how you want to roleplay them. Whatever tattoos, customizations, whatever skin color options you pick, come up with a story that fits your character, and that’s your place in the world. And regardless of what quest text is, or how it refers to you, remember that it’s your choice and your character, and you get to express yourself that way. That’s at the bottom line of what we want Azeroth to be. We want it to be this welcoming place that lets all those options be out there, lets people experience them, and again, choose the path that your character wants to be. And don’t let anyone else tell you what your character can or can’t be. You decide that.
The quote is the entire question and entire answer because the Wowhead liveblog shorthanded a lot.
Danuser starts out answering how their thought process was before they added those customizations in. So he is confirming that the additional skin tones added to Darkspear are different troll tribe tones.
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Yeah he’s literally saying it’s not Canon except if you want it to be for your toon.
Same problem in my eyes.
Those options are for player choice not Canon to their factions necessarily.
In the case of void elves at least Id like that to change. Those options should be Canonized.
And regardless it should still be fine to talk about wanting those things or seeking them without being told you’re disingenuous.
Eh, i wouldn’t say never but im not going to hold my breath either. They have already done it to some extent for an existing allied race. I could see a potential future where they do it for Void Elves in their customization pass.
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No, he is saying 'if we add for instance Wildhammer options to the players, do we need to give them an experience that says 'you’re beginning the game as a Wildhammer Dwarf, not a Bronzebeard"?
I don’t know how you take that to him meaning ‘they are not canon choices.’
Like I said, the very beginning of his reply is them brainstorming the customizations they added in Shadowlands before they added them.
His later reply is then pertaining to ‘while we didn’t give you a starter Wildhammer experience, the tools were given to you to be that.’
When he references quest text he is relating it to how they’re not going to make all these minute changes because as I stated from another convo, the Preach video, they are not going to prioritize really minutiae changes that will have very small impact. They are going to put their efforts toward ‘what will have the biggest impact within the timeframe we’re working in.’
Lore gave an example of that, he said something about how like if some Snow elemental or something is off color or not correct or whatever, the team isn’t going to see that as some high priority issue even if it is a misplacement/bug/incorrect.
So sure go ahead and talk about them but if you’re not understanding what the team is saying in the first place then really it is not a good faith conversation in the first place.
There has to be an understanding first of what is being said. If there isn’t then a common ground can’t be reached.
Making a Void Elf NPC that looks literally like any High Elf NPC is such a small thing it’s most likely not even on their radar, as again canonizing a sub group race is not their purpose when diversifying NPC looks in the first place.
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