horde had insta ques in vanila , alliance do now. The population of bg participants changed.
If each side /waved and rode by each other as they met at Bel on their merry way to zerg each other’s base ally would still have same win rate just like vanilla.
What map advantages?
The bridge? if we get to that point the game is already over.
Horde just have to softcap SHGY to win the game, even if we softcap ibgy that horde still have the cave.
They don’t understand because all they’re doing is throwing bodies at SHGY til it soft caps. Once they have that, clean up any alliance who made it south because they will respawn behind the choke they just set up. It’s braindead easy while alliance have to play both offensively and defensively in order to progress because horde are putting us on defense long before we can do the same to them.
6 Likes
The bridge is more of a horde advantage since holding it when SP goes down prevents alliance from getting back to FA station.
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The bridge is a very strong advantage especially with the backdoors getting fixed. It means alliance can easily leave without horde stopping them by going out the back, and horde have one small entrance to enter by, which can be 100% covered by a rank 1 blizzard, preventing stealth from getting by (hunter flares cover it as well), slowing all approaches (with correct talents) and making for an easy aoe kill zone
This advantage means you can have 5-10 mages/warlocks with a few healers and 100% lock down the horde from crossing because they will go into an aoe death zone to cross, so alliance can hold that spot with less than 20 people with the rest going on offense through the multitude of exit paths while horde only have one entrance.
And to even cap the GY on the other side of the bridge alliance have to almost intentionally give it up or they have horrible class comp for the BG.
The only way for horde to be able to somewhat pass the bridge alive is with FAP and even then they will be at 50% hp when they get past the aoe zone if alliance are doing it right…
That bridge is the single best choke point in the game if only it is used properly. And alliance START with owning that check point.
Yet some of the people here want to claim it’s better for the horde after we already had to take it from you… Lol.
It’s amazing how strong of a choke point that bridge is, good thing alliance start with it so they have the advantage of it being their choke point until they basically intentionally give it to the horde.
Yea, its a good choke better now with one of the backdoors fixed but as i said, if get to that point the game is already over and alliance are only delaying it
The crux of the problem is that it takes both horde and alliance roughly the same amount of time to get to SHGY from their respective caves. It should take the same amount of time for horde to get to IBGY as it does alliance to get to SHGY which would cause a fight in the middle of the map instead of on the alliances first significant defense point.
So, alliance is forced to have manpower at SHGY all the time which causes imbalances at every other node.
4 Likes
A good read.
https://imgur.com/a/TOfoV6A
OP
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-are-allies-losing-90-of-avs/126866/16
How is it over? That choke point is strong enough that having 20 people there (assuming they use it right and have decent team comp) can hold off 40 people. This frees up 20 people to sneak around onto offense and retake things or even go full south to take towers / gy / end the game.
The bridge let’s a 20 man group hold off 40 people… And you think the game is over at that point… Lol
1 Like
They have to go through IBW choke now KEKW
Oh yea, and the alliance can only use the bridge if they are ressing at AS and not the cave, if not aidstation, horde can use the bridge to choke the alliance
utalizing the bridge depends on giving up SP uncontested. If we defend SP we spawn on the outside and must ghost to our first aid station, once SP goes down ofc.
I know even dying halfway across bridge sends you to cave instead FAstation.
You see, it is with those minor and major issues the alliance stoped trying and dont care anymore.
That was a good write up, the most obvious to me was always the IBGY being elevated, allowing horde a direct line, and the multiple ways of attack at SHGY following the giant high ground choke to SPGY.
You haven’t seen this from the perspective of Alliance players, who know immediately we’re at a severe disadvantage. Have you not noticed that the first battles start at SHGY, not at IBGY? That alone should clue you zugs into the severe imbalance Blizz has decided Alliance need to have in AV.
The map is cut into three thirds- the Horde side, Alliance side, and FoS. But Horde gets the middle third uncontested and think that’s balanced. Imagine if in AB Alliance were able to assault LM, Mines and BS every single match before anyone could reach it from Horde.
I’ve seen those AV pugs try numerous strategies, between ambushing at SH, going for SF, going for IB- defend and attack strategies, all rush strategies and none of them work.
Right after the AV change I had a handful of AV wins, before top end players began to realize the disadvantage was simply not worth playing against. The strategy was always the same- wipe the Horde over and over while holding SHGY until we got SFGY, and then hold both until we had IBGY. Holding two BGs meant splitting our team, but that also meant if Horde decided to go all in on SFGY we’d be back at square one, if they went all in on SHGY it was a guaranteed loss since they could then just go back to take SFGY through numbers.
They also had another thing in common- we had between 2-3x more HKs than the Horde in every one of those games, and Horde was still able to get to AS . In a fair BG, two evenly matched teams would be close to a win. But in every one of these matches despite utterly dominating we were squeaking out wins.
It’s only natural seeing that you’re barely winning after playing a perfect game where the other side screws up numerous times and doesn’t use the guaranteed win condition of just taking SHGY early, where you get hundreds more kills than the other side- people are going to move to WSG/AB where all you need to do to win is be a bit better than the other side.
Every time we’ve managed to reach IBGY to even start an assault we’d already be at 200-300 HKs. When you need to wipe the entire Horde raid 5-8 times just to get to the position Horde STARTS the BG at you have a situation that’s straight up broken.
5 Likes
You realize the way you got rep from the druids was pvp right?
And because of the horde map advantage the rep from other objectives is largely unavailable and all you’ll see is even longer queue times for horde as more alliance leave the BG.
2 Likes
I’m not saying the map isn’t a LITTLE imbalanced but the real reason alliance loses AV (along with almost every other pug) is we have EXTREMELY SELFISH players who like to queue up with PvE specs, meme specs, terrible gear and alts.
If you’re not at least in pre-raid PvP bis and PvP specced you are alliances problem and there’s not a SINGLE CHANGE that blizzard can make that is going to make the few PvPers on alliance carry that garbage to a victory.
That’s who’s queueing up now, when AV was originally released serious pvpers were queuing for it. Once horde started playing scorched earth they stopped doing so as there was little chance of winning.