That’s false. Alliance tried to win. We tried various strats but the end result was always the same - ending up trapped north of IWB. How long would horde do that before they found another way to benefit or just stopped queuing?
It’s cause and effect. The cause is the map. The effect is alliance gave up and stopped queuing or started farming rep.
I remember because I even made a post about it wondering why the Alliance don’t defend at all and simply die on their horses trying to run to drek. Yall were just a bunch of lemmings for that whole time.
And I questioned why horde didn’t even try to win in the first weeks AV was released. They just killed as many NPCs as they could before alliance won. What’s your point?
That not playing to win leads to not winning. And the Alliance have not been playing to win since AV premades died.
Different strats were tried.
Problem is that horde reach FoS before Alliance, reach SFGY before Alliance, reach SHB before alliance. There’s nothing alliance can reach first before horde.
We have no chokepoints that work in our favor SPGY actually helps horde.
Here’s what what would happen.
Alliance wipe horde, find huge resistance at IBGY with IBT firing down on players. Horde go around their safe space ledge, drop down and attack SHGY, alliance has to defend but cannot push. You can defend IBGY choke with like 15-20 people.
Horde ride past bunkers all the way to aid station or backdoor, pretty soon we got several bunkers being capped which we have to defend. Push dies and we slowly lose ground because SHGY/SHB/IWB are in horrible spots.
Take away that safe space ledge from horde and they cannot defend it half as good anymore. I’m not sure who designed the map but it’s design is terrible.
That’s your take. Mine is different. I was in plenty of groups who tried and tried hard to win. We have to massively outplay horde to win. It’s not a fun experience to try hard and still lose over and over.
AV will never be 50-50 in classic and I think even alliance players will be fine with something like 60-40 or even 65-35.
Most PVPers know if they want a 50-50 bg, it’s got to be WSG or AB. Those are much closer to mirror maps with simpler objectives.
The problem is that AV is currently 95-5 or 99-1 win rates for horde. That’s untenable.
And this batch of changes fixes most of the minor flaws without touching the one that’s created the current horde meta: the horde’s nearly invincible defense of IB GY due to the cave rezzing spot.
The good news is that Blizzard is making changes, so we can hope. But I really do wish they’d get to touching that issue sooner rather than later.
We don’t need to experience 3 months of these changes before Blizzard touches it again.
I think that if 40 people were trying on both sides, some of those things that feel impossible to overcome might not be so hard. I honestly think there has not been a time since AV premades were the Alliance had 40 people trying to actually play AV. And that until you get 40 people on the Alliance actually trying to win, you cannot say anything about map balance.
I would not be surprised of upwards of half of the Alliance team were doing things that actively hurt their chances of winning…including standing by the druids all game, /afking out once they get their rep and other forms of non participation.
Trust me, i sympathize with your current situation. I know it cannot be fun to go in there at all. But I don’t think the problem is as simple as “map bad.” I think its people playing the battleground for the pixels instead of playing it to win…and as long as it is more rewarding to lose than it is to win, yall are going to keep losing.
People were farming rep long before they figured out how to hold the druids.
Here’s the issue.
IBGY has one entrance with stakes blocking people from riding through and AoE stopping and stealthers from capping and splitting the horde.
Horde can literally drop off the ledge in stealth, ride to any alliance area and backdoor and cause issues.
Now. Why is it only one side can effectively use stealth to disrupt pushes while the other has no way to stealth past IBGY effectively?
It’s little things like this that Horde don’t have to deal with.
You’re ignoring how alliance got to this point. The map imbalance isn’t something we can fix ourselves. When we have to massively outplay horde at every level to overcome, it’s not a fun experience because the likelihood of getting in a group that is capable of outplaying horde at that level to win is pretty small.
The alliance got to the point by having premades cut over night. Pugs never ever had a chance to learn the map. Pugs were starting games with 10v40 and just losing. And then overnight premades stopped.
Pugs went from 10v40 to 40v40 with no idea what to actually do…but now their ranks were filled with spurned premaders who were too bad to get into WSG premades…and chose to afk instead of playing with the former muggers.
a classical view of wow classic? who would have thought?
most my guild are over 30, not concerned about honor per hour, but most do enjoy BGs. decent sized guild btw about 80 very active members. We have a pvp night mostly just for fun. getting honor in the process is just kinda a bonus.
i think your highly underestimating the amount of players who do play just for fun. maybe that is in fact different than most mmos simply because wow classic tends to be an older crowd who do play games just for the fun of it. maybe not.
Most wow classic players are casuals, youll never see them on these forums, and they dont play just for efficiency. Rewards are nice, but arent the sole reason alot of people play. vast majority play for fun, the rewards are just a nice bonus. if somethings not fun anymore (like AV rep grinding / no objectives) we’re not gonna play, cause the most important part, the fun, is gone.
Stop. Unless you played alliance during that time, you don’t know what took place for us. I was there, with friends, and we only squeezed out a handful of wins. The majority were losses despite playing to win. It was not worth our time to keep doing that.
Being on the other side, I experienced nothing that would support your assertion.
i played since vanilla and AV was nothing like its been lately. it was unheard of to just play for rep and not do objectives. yes, we didnt win all the time, maybe 30 percent but the losses were fun too. many 2 hour plus games. often id afk out just because they were too long for the sitting. but that was ok because even if the battleground wasnt completed, it was a fun game. We’ll probably never have games like that again, cause yes gamer mindset has changed for too many people. but guiding the game towards that type of play is the whole point of classic.
i think this quote from the patch notes best sums it up " As always, our intention is to accurately represent the 1.12 design intent of the game, and these bugs are clear examples of behaviors that were never intended."
The key word is INTENT. Yes, blizzard has made some gameplay changes, but they have done that to promote the original intent of how the battleground is played, and to combat the changes modern player mindset have made.
In essence, the changes were made in an effort to keep the gameplay and feel of the battle closer to what it was in vanilla.
The version of AV, 1.12, we got for the duration of classic was not in vanilla that long. This version in vanilla was a zerg from both sides. Scorched earth came in TBC. It’s not the same experience as vanilla. They gave us the worst version AV and it’s no surprise that players are finding other ways to benefit.
And yet, in every other aspect of the game, people have proven that they know tons of strategies about the game and topple content easily.
But not in this one narrow aspect, apparently only the alliance in only AV have no idea how the game works. Or, at least, the horde would have us believe. Yes, it must be that people don’t know what to actually do!
Its almost like the other aspects of the game are static and scripted. And PvP has an ever-changing meta. But instead of trying to learn, Alliance have just conceded and made up excuses instead of trying.
I see plenty of alliance “hiding to surprise the enemy”. They are so intent on hiding that they seemingly never notice as they are being slaughtered. They continue to stand still, hoping they are not noticed, until the TIME TO STRIKE, HAHA!
The “hiding to surprise the enemy” thing is a real gem.