Right now the issue are the people who only go to AV to get rep, and the lack of serious PvPers other than those that actually want to do AV. The cause of the current issue - lack of Alliance trying in the slightest - is due to Blizzard’s actions against the Alliance (given the Horde didn’t really use the same) after the first fix actually solved the problem, and the already known map differences.
We’ve done this song and dance for months. It’s not interesting anymore.
Naw, its strictly a mathematical thing. Its just more efficient to not play-to-win. Its more efficient for the Alliance to lose…and then wonder why your win-rate is so low. And as long as that is the case, you cant really use win-rates as a justification for anything regarding the balance of the map.
But pushing out the people who want to cheese out rep is a good start. Removing rewards completely from AV i think would be the best thing they could do because the only people left queuing will be those who actually want to play the battleground…but I don’t think that will ever happen.
Right, but that’s based on fast queues - especially in AV - and the fact there’s a disadvantage at the start.
Also, you support the Horde queue going up to 8+ hours?
Its frustrating to have you completely agree with me that Alliance are not playing to win, and then asserting this over and over. Literally agreeing with me that we could swap spawns and the Alliance would still lose…BUT THE MAP!
BUT THE QUEUE TIMES!
I agreed the reason the winrate is as bad as it is, is because the Ally are not playing to win. I disagree that the Alliance never played to win, and that the cause of the Alliance not playing to win isn’t solely honour gains.
As much as you think I’m biased, I don’t like the idea of Horde waiting that long.
Although when I’m trying to get my one AV win it’s a bit of solace. If the rep grinders leaving actually improves the winrate a bit, it’ll at least be a positive change. But would it be enough is also unknown.
You could literally flip the map. And the Alliance would still lose. You could give the Alliance all the imbalances you think the Horde currently have and you would still lose because its not worth playing a long game with short queue times.
I am not sure I can say it any more blunt than that.
Queues are not a problem. Not good or bad. They are what they are. Removing the rep cheesers might actually bring more Alliance back into AV who want to actually PvP…lowering Horde queue times…who knows.
As they are now? Probably. Even after the people there for rep leave, again - there’s a strong lack of Alliance who are going to try hard while there’s no lack of Horde doing the same. That’s not a very solid comparison given the bulk of the people who generally contribute the most aren’t going to be in AV.
Before the issue got this bad? I highly doubt it. But that’s Blizzard’s way - ignore a problem until it’s already done its damage, then don’t fix it but change something else.
Tell that to the Horde still whining about the queue times but not wanting to switch to the smaller faction.
so, when are we removing 5man queue from AV?
The correct order of operations to fix AV is to get people actually participating first, and playing to win…and THEN seeing if there is an actual map imbalance. Because right now you’re agreeing with me that the way the Alliance are currently playing AV…they could start on the side of the map you think is imbalanced and still lose.
For every thread i see complaining about horde queue times i see 50 alliance complaining about the current situation. Horde queue times are not a problem.
Why would people bother doing AV and try to win if there’s no rewards, and why would enough better PvPers interested in ranking bother with doing AV with the discrepancies in place?
Usually the same threads whining about Alliance premades also whine about queue times, so they’re a lot more even there.
Also most of the people making the AV threads are upset because they want to enjoy it. But even with the rep grind part removed, there’s still not enough reason for more serious people to queue - so they’re still going to lose a vast majority of games.
Because its a game? And playing the game should be the reward in-and-of itself. If you need an external reward to be playing a game, then you’re doing recreation wrong.
I don’t think you have a very realistic idea of how the game/community actually works.
Unless I am mistaken, the act of playing a game should be the whole point.
Doing something that isn’t fun for a reward isn’t a game…that is a job.
A lot of what people do in MMOs are a means to an end. That includes the PvP grind.
Then a lot of people are playing games wrong. The MMO is the end in-and-of itself.
You have a very optimistic, classical view of MMOs and vanilla WoW in general. I have a realistic and modern view of them. That’s why we’re not going to agree at all.
If a player needs an external reward to play a game, they need to seriously consider if they’re playing the game for the right reasons. Its a game. Its leisure, its recreation.
Playing it any other way is a job you’re paying $15 a month to endure. And I feel sorry for anyone who actively chooses that as how they spend their free time.
Again - optimism vs. realism.
Realism vs Cynicism
Your opinion of how players play MMO is in no way realistic.