In this case it isn’t a matter of inexperience, it is a matter of fact. They made those changes in patches 2.3 and 2.4. Those patches came out over a year after TBC dropped. If they were going to rebalance the cave location due to Vanilla, they would have done so when they made the original changes for TBC which included reinforcements.
Seriously, it gets old seeing this garbage line of argument because it is flat out wrong. They rebalanced AV for 2.0 TBC by adding a new mechanic and making other changes to the map before TBC ever dropped. They then made changes to the map and spawn locations 3 MAJOR patches later. So yeah, the timeline doesn’t even remotely line up, but we should definitely listen to the mage with an agenda rather than the facts of when Blizzard actually made changes to the BG along with what those changes were.
It doesn’t matter when the changes were made. That was then and this is now. A win rate of over 95% means the BG is broken, for whatever reason. Something needs to be done with it or it’s just going to continue to get worse.
The cave location does not need to be changed, the same effect can be had with two things:
Delay the horde gate opening so the two teams arrive at the center of the Field of Strife at the same time.
Only send people to the cave rez when there are no other graveyards held by that team.
Then the game starts out in the most neutral spot in the BG and you don’t get the odd effects of being sent to the cave and getting extra rezzes compared to the other team.
Are there other changes that could be made? Sure but start with these. They’ll either have little effect or they’ll help but at least we’ll be able to get them out of the way to look at deeper issues.
And my comment about Misadventure was the laughable claim made in another topic that I must not have played Vanilla at all. A clear effort to attack the person rather than discuss things rationally.
Come on Sherlock, connect the dots. If the Horde weren’t using your favorite whipping boy of a strategy (which isn’t even the same strategy I might add since the TBC strategy was to bunker down and not advance at all vs the Classic strategy which is to take SHGY then matriculate north) prior to TBC, why would patch 2.3 and patch 2.4 contain changes specifically designed to address Vanilla issues?
Yeah. Don’t get me wrong. I think those changes should be made (along with a brand new change to the druids to make summoning Treesus feasible). I just don’t like people arguing that somehow the 2.3 / 2.4 changes had anything to do with Vanilla. They didn’t.
AV needs an overhaul and has needed one for a while. In addition to the changes from 2.3 / 2.4 along with fixes to the druids to make it so they can summon Treesus (not the ones that are going in), I also think they should add in randomized start locations. I don’t think they can make the map fair and I don’t like that the Alliance start at a disadvantage that is pretty easily fixed.
I just wish both sides would be more reasonable about just how big the map advantage is. It is big, but not some 95% big. But seriously, the worst part of this whole thing for me is just how easily they could make that change to the cave. #sigh.
Edit: I could even get behind the delayed gate opening change. Literally anything to make it competitive enough that I can have some fun games in there again. #sigh. My favorite game in the last 4 months was the one I lost. It was fun seeing something different happen for a change even though I was on the losing side.
You don’t think player behavior can adapt over time? Scorched earth didn’t become an obvious win before reinforcements. The map certainly allowed for it however.
Let’s stop making all these claims and start trying some fixes. The big three are the ones I just mentioned and also randomizing the starts. Those would be great to get out of the way and work on deeper issues like how the factions work and why there’s so little alliance involvement in PVP. It all factors in and anyone who says differently is not being completely honest with themselves or others.
Honestly, another change is it’s just plain stupid to have the levels be 51-60. Make a 50-59 AV and a 60 AV. That would help a lot too. Maybe even give everyone’s mount the same speed for just that BG.
I do think it can. I also think that you are misattributing today’s strategy to a strategy from TBC because 1) it isn’t the same strategy and 2) you are completely ignoring how play evolved on the NA server on Classic itself. There were multiple metas prior to the current one and they all built up to this meta. So whatever happened in TBC literally had no bearing on why the current meta developed. So bringing up the TBC meta every time this discussion occurs is pointless.
You have demonstrated a serious lack of first hand knowledge regarding any aspect of how AV was during vanilla, and like other alliance continually point at changes done after the entire win condition was changed deep within TBC. So yeah, quacks like a duck.
I don’t see the point in arguing with you, especially when to actually fix AV and get Ally to play again, more changes are required. You won’t move past the, “Alliance players suck” argument so I don’t care to try.
Until Blizzard makes a real attempt to balance and fix AV, Ally just won’t queue for it, and we’ll keep letting you roll over us.
