This is garbage speculation without facts. You never answer the fact that your best players left without ever trying the map. Ever. You just fall back on this same trash every single time.
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What is the #1 thing premades prevented on their team?
Afk, leech, bot, exc.
It garenteed the majority of your team was trying to win.
Before the ban wave blizzard gave (and before the defeatist mentality took hold) I saw 10-20 afk/leech/bot a game in AV on alliance side. And thatâs what I could notice as horde (I intentionally went to the gold mine and killed players in there after checking if they were a bot by slightly attacking them when they were farming mobs to not outright kill them) and if they didnât respond I reported then killed them by putting them to 10% hp as they fought a mob, so they would get durability damage)
By the time blizzard fixed the bot issue for alliance in AV the alliance had started the defeatist mentality and now itâs to late.
The thing that killed AV at the start of premades being broken was alliance having teams of half players and half bot/leech/afk by the time it got addressed by blizzard the next reason alliance lose took over, the defeatist mentality.
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Spell batching was never about no changes. It was about ensuring a superior experience on shamans (elemental mastery + chain lightning + earthshock). While simultaneously reducing the hard damage mitigation abilities of paladins to make a play (BoP, LoH,). Blizz said they were going to make classic well polished but they have failed very badly at that. The spell batching system literally reduces the ability of paladins to be effective vs shamans to double crit you. The excuse of #nochanges is invalid at this point simply do to the fact that so many changes have already been made.
I guess the one consistent #nochanges policy that has been kept in place is horde favoritism in PvP. Great job.
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How is pointing out that in general alliance(and anyone for that matter) donât particularly enjoy playing on a map that gives the other faction a massive advantage garbage?
Would you be okay with randomizing the starting locations since according to you the map is perfectly balanced?
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We have been over this. Yes I would be ok with randomized start locations. I would prefer it in fact.
What is garbage is the idea that Alliance would queue if the BG was 50/50. I still have 20+ minute waits for AB / WSG and those are pretty close to 50/50 when it is pug on pug. So Alliance arenât even really queuing in those BGs to support anywhere near the idea that people would come back to AV. I go from 2+ hour queues to 1.5 hour queues? Come on. Get outta here.
Yes, but the ease of defense of IB GY doesnât really focus on that. Outnumbered horde defensive groups can take back IB GY with a couple of waves of attack.
I donât think anybody is saying that the entire 99% win rate for horde is due to the map imbalance.
Even if the map was completely equal, horde would still win >60% probably in base race scenarios just due to having more rankers playing AV and better geared players in AV.
That part of it wonât change, but the map is the biggest problem right now and the one thatâs most easily fixed.
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And now your blaming spell batching as some type of horde favoritismâŚ
Yes we already know in general more horde are pvping than alliance in general. Horde are going to have longer queues than alliance, sorry.
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Idk, rezing 20 seconds away from Alliance first objective when itâs soft capped and rezing 20 at a time seems pretty massive.
Go do AV, see the horde strat, do people stay back to defend IBGY?? I wonder why they donât??
Can Alliance not defend SHGY?? Wonder what would happen if Alliance trades SHGY for IBGY in the first 5 minutes of the game??
All of this has been answered, you win simply because of the map, you can pretend itâs another reason but most of us know better.
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Personally Iâm excited for the damage done/healing done statistics for Bgs, because it will be much easier to prove to the alliance they have a bot/leech/afk problem.
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The last time I posted on this topic, I literally gave a play by play of the Alliance wrecking us real time. They did exactly what they should do. They pushed IBGY, we retook, then they took SHGY while we were recovering IBGY. Thatâs not rocket science. It was an organized group and they were mostly all playing. It isnât like they were dominating the team fights in those games either. They simply played the game correctly and stuck to their core group. Held SHGY and pushed early enough to make Horde react.
I literally see that happen once every blue moon. So please donât come at me with the IBGY choke. Yes Horde can take it back. That shouldnât be your focus anyway.
Sadly at this point it would be more than 60% and then we would hear all number of excuses from Alliance players then too.
I am not saying the map is even. But the idea that the map is some 80/20 or 70/30 map is ridiculous. It isnât. It is a 60/40 map. Is that fair? No. Is it doable? Absolutely. Alliance donât try and havenât for months. Their best players havenât been in the BG before they even stopped trying which compounds this sense of map imbalance. Ultimately, I would prefer some map changes. But I am sick of reading garbage statements saying the map is why they lose. It is part of it. It definitely isnât the lionâs share of it.
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Then donât come in here like a 50/50 bg would mean anything regarding alliance playing the map. WhatâŚ50 more might play? Thatâs 1 more BG. Who cares.
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50/50 win rateâŚ
Alliance defeatist mentality
Like I said in a different post. The last time I posted on this topic was a play by play of us getting railed by an alliance group that actually pushed IBGY and took it. Then they held it long enough to force Horde to recover it. When Horde went back, they took SFGY and proceeded to trash us. They werenât some massively better group of players (they were better, but it wasnât by a lot). 35 of them were actually playing. They actually followed a strategy. And they thrashed us.
So yeah, I do see the cave as an issue. But it isnât some insurmountable one. You take IBGY, we have to take it back quickly. If we canât, you get SFGY and we lose. It is literally as simple as that.
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What? Weâve known the map is tilted for years, thereâs vids on youtube from Vanilla that show Horde can get to SHB in less time than Alliance- meaning Horde straight up can take the first bunker without any competition at all. Weâve known about the extra reinforcements, and how it takes less time to get from the Horde cave to IB than the Alliance cave to SH by a considerable amount.
Even when running premades that would go straight to Galv- we werenât meeting in the FoS, we werenât meeting at Galv- we were meeting beside Balinda, before the Alliance side ramp up to SFGY.
The advantage is so massive that Horde reach the ALLIANCE SIDE of the SF ramp before Alliance, and you think we werenât aware of the map advantages Horde has? Thatâs not something thatâs possible to miss.
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Are there NPC in that bunker that delay the horde from taking it until alliance show up?
HmmmmâŚyes, there isâŚ
You can tap the flag in both towers and bunkers by LOS the archers, so in both cases you can avoid it.
Furthermore, for Horde itâs possible to tag the flag from beneath it through the floor if you know how. It may be considered an exploit though so I canât explain how to do so.
You guys are arguing with people that think getting one gy and bunker for free is fair.
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Yeah, that also means you get the more highly reinforced location for the first team fight meaning you can wipe horde at SHGY and proceed to SFGY or push to IBGY. Thatâs literally the intended style of play from that side of the map. That part isnât what makes it imbalanced.
There are 2 real imbalance issues. 1) Horde can respawn at the cave. 2) Treesus canât actually be summoned because the summoning location is trash.
The rest? They donât matter until reinforcements are added to the game in TBC.
As for the premades running straight to Galv, yeah some would. Some would stop and wipe horde prior to IBGY then move to Galv. Some would ride right on past Galv. All of the best ones had one thing in common though. They stuck together. All of the Alliance groups have had something in common since the premade changes. Most of the rankers werenât there. That had absolutely nothing to do with the map. It had everything to do with the fact that it takes around 30 minutes to win an AV. Thatâs too long from an HPH perspective for the faction with instant queues. It was true in Vanilla when horde wouldnât queue and it is true now.