Personal experience isn’t a made up number, but hay you would have me believe the map is THE reason for alliance losing 99% of their AV… It’s not.
Look another made up statistic, and an opinion on why.
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Yes, I have been a part of 10-15 man horde defensive groups that have wiped 30 man alliance groups at IB GY. I’m an objectives oriented player, even when I was ranking, I still focused on defending IB GY while taking SF GY/SH GY.
The entire reason alliance stopped playing offense is because the horde defense at IB GY is too easy to pull off. That’s the whole basis for the current horde meta of “take the triangle of SF GY/SH GY/IB GY and choke alliance at IWB and win after 30 minutes with total map control for 5940 honor”.
We were outmanned every time we wiped alliance at IB GY. But our ability to rez nearby at the cave and quickly rush in and pick off a few alliance and to do that 3-4 times in the 5 minute window while alliance at most got 1 wave of reinforcements makes it far too easy for horde to defend.
I’m calling it as I see it as a horde only player.
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Horde get the entire middle of the map in AV uncontested due to their headstart, and get double reinforcements that take half as long to get to their first BG IBGY compared to Alliance and SHGY. Two massive advantages.
To compare- imagine if Alliance’s starting GY in AB was at the BS, meaning the first conflict was at the Farms on the Horde’s side, much like in AV the first conflict is at SHGY on the Alliance’s side.
Would you consider that unfair? Of course you would. But, even with that advantage Horde premades would beat Alliance pugs often enough. That’s what happened in AV, premades were able to overcome the map advantage.
If you had AB with Alliance starting at BS- Alliance premades would dominate Horde premades, because you could send your whole team to Farms to cut off the Horde right away, preventing them from getting to the other points as one player goes about to take the other four. Starting AB with a 4-0 disadvantage and a fight over point 5 wouldn’t be fair at all to Horde.
But for some reason, in AV that disadvantage is considered perfectly fine.
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My laughter was due to you calling 10-15 a “small group”, in light of alliance’s ability to stiff-arm on their bridge with single digits.
And they are parading you around on their shoulders, while dismissing immediately, alliance who too are “calling it as they see it” but does not jive with the meta of excuse making.
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This is a good change, hopefully it will kill the lose for rep and hold druid meta for good. If you want rep you should be aiming to win the battleground. And since there are no premades in AV anymore there is no excuse to not trying.
The next step needs to be to move the cave back for Horde. Either that, or allow alliance to premade again so we can control who we play with. Otherwise, we’ll stick to WSG and AB and let Horde enjoy their 6hr queues for AV.
Perhaps something will be done when the Horde queue says “Unavailable” ?
The game is over once horde has the trifecta in the middle. Nothing else matters for the winning/losing condition; the whole game centers around IB GY/SH GY/SF GY. Yes alliance can stall for an hour plus, heck I’ve been in 2 hour games in AV in the past couple of months.
If you hold all 3 and choke the other team, then you win. Incendius alliance has been doing that to horde pugs the past 2 months as well because that’s how AV works.
Okay so they can choke at the bridge a bit better than we can in our base. We can choke a bit better at IB GY than they can at SH GY (because there’s no southern choke there.
There’s minor advantages to either team on other parts of the map. But the single largest imbalance on the map is the IB GY-cave distance and the horde defense at IB GY from the cave.
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Lol why even bring the bridge up??
If we are at the bridge the games already over…
Man you’re just stubborn or purposely trolling at this point.
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And the meta of stopping at SHGY, not rushing SF, not sending stealthers to soft cap southern GYs, etc, perpetuates that meta. Blurting out a trifecta, when the opposition is not even TRYING is disingenuous as hell. The past few AVs I’ve run, I have witnessed ONCE alliance actually attempting to move south of SH. Not because horde was stonewalling them, but because they simply stopped and picked off individual hordies.
Where is this magical classic AV where it is realm-only for incendius?
And they can choke at Stormpike better than horde can at FW. And they can (if they actually tried) defend balinda better than horde defends galv, because to defend galv, horde have to go out of their way to the west. There are upsides and downsides for both factions. I am frankly sick of seeing the alliance ones handwaved, first with the excuse of backdoors, and then when those backdoors are sealed, dismissing it entirely.
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Yes… that’s what happens after game after game of trying to push south and the horde map advantage making it fail. Why would you expect alliance to keep doing that if it has a almost zero success rate?
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For rep.
No.
Irrelevant.
By maintaining a terrible status quo for Alliance? No.
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None of that stuff works because it hasn’t worked for months; you’re suggesting things that alliance tried many times back in January/Feb/March. Alliance tried all those different strategies (targeting SF GY or IB GY or riding past to FW GY) but horde hard countered and gradually developed the current 30 minute/5940 honor min-max win strat centered around taking SF GY/SH GY while wiping the alliance offense.
Why are you suggesting that alliance try completely dismissed strategies that failed countless times?
I’m talking to you as somebody that watched the meta evolve over the months since AV came out; I queued AV nearly every day since it came out until I quit ranking last month.
Incendius has been running AV premades on alliance side the past couple months. I’ve ran into them a dozen times over the past 3 months. They manage to get around 30 into a game and then run the same min-max strategy that horde has been using but in reverse; they choke the whole horde team south of IB GY and leave around 15 defenders at IB GY to prevent any horde from getting north.
After experiencing that a few times, I think I understand now why alliance hate the current horde meta. Those games against Incendius were incredibly frustrating, and yet that’s basically what happens to most alliance pugs on a daily basis. That’s not healthy for the game and eventually horde queues will reach 3+ hours due to it.
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None of that stuff currently works, because alliance stopped trying after the premade exploit was removed. This wagging the dog stuff is getting tiresome.
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No they stopped trying after it failed many many times.
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Wrong…
What’s funny is he’s saying the same stuff I have said to you.
I was a horde player, I rerolled Alliance.
It was the exact same thing on our games, don’t need to defend anything as horde, rush SHGY for 30 minutes, it doesn’t matter what Alliance take, it actually works on horde favor if we leave half our army only at SHGY and other half attack something, faster horde get SHGY faster horde can just retake whatever they get, and if it’s IBGY it’s over.
Everything he is saying I have said as a horde player.
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Nah, the best players left without even trying. Your mid rank players tried for a little then they left too. Your best players have not been in there since the premade changes went live. I know I know. You will say something stupid like “why try when you already know the map is bad.” Funny thing, they didn’t know the map was tilted. They left because they knew the HPH wasn’t worth it without a premade group.
A 50/50 win rate would easily bring plenty of people back into AV. Alliance simply can’t get that in AV.
Why do you think pugs have stopped trying against premades in AB/WSG for the most part and just favor turtle strategies and don’t rez after one or two deaths?
Nobody is going to keep trying in an unfair situation. That’s why alliance stopped trying in AV months ago and are just using that druid exploit to get rep.
It’s tough to blame alliance when they can’t defend or reinforce SH GY like horde can defend IB GY.
That single imbalance has led to the current mess and 95-99% horde winrates.
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Yep. And if your best players weren’t premade spanking pugs in AB / WSG and were actually queuing in AV, this wouldn’t be true. Team fights matter in AV. They have always mattered. Having 5-10 fewer quality players in a team fight swings things pretty fast.
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