So a large part of Rogue dps is using Vanish with your opener and then on cooldown.
But when I solo and hit vanish the monster I am fighting goes back to full health and walks away.
So I can never reach my regular group and raid dps when soloing.
Question: in this new expansion that will be heavily solo based will blizzard be nice enough to solve this solo dps issue?
Most likely no so we will have to use âsoloâ builds that do not rely on Stealth/Vanish/Dance mechanics.
When soloing you want Vanish to reset the mobs. Itâs your oh crap button.
His point is that shadowdance was better for soloing.
It is better, but you will always have higher dps in a party when you can group it with vanish.
Rogue solo dps is always gimped because of this. As a ârogueâ thematically we should be stronger alone.
No vanish isnât better than dance in a party, even with 2 charges because only one charge will reduce at a time.
Shadow dance (iâm not even going to put outlaw here)
0 seconds - stealth
3 seconds- vanish
6 seconds - dance
76 seconds - dance
123 seconds -vanish
2x vanish
0 seconds- stealth
6 seconds- vanish
12 seconds- vanish
126 seconds -vanish
Youâre going to have 5 stealth rotations vs 4 rotations in TWW.
Vanish + shadowdance
Will always be better and yield more DPS thanâŠ.
Just shadowdance for soloing
Ideally to fix this issue. The opener should have its time expanded to include a vanish cooldown. Then shadowdance should have itâs time extended as well. Then put a 10 second no attack timer after you hit vanish. This way vanish is only used as a defensive cooldown. This makes the rogue cooldown rotation easier to manage in general. With this applied we now have no loss of dps when soloing.
There needs to be an optional talent in the class tree that deploys a âdecoyâ shadow image of yourself for 3 seconds when you vanish that aggros mobs. Not taunt, wouldnât want to troll groups in PvE but just something that lets you use vanish for the dps boost.
Or option 2 which is my preferred choice: stop making defensive and utility abilities into dps cooldowns!
A cool different method. You definitely understood the assignment! Thank you!
Using Vanish offensively isnât exactly what Iâd call a âlargeâ portion of our damage. Itâs a tool to maximize burst phases for sure, but itâs not like you couldnât remove vanish from your bar entirely and clear heroic handedly.
The idea it canât be used in solo play, while true, also seems strange. In what world are you really needing to pop those kind of offensives in solo play in this game? Nothing actually tuned for solo play requires us to go to the same lengths to complete it as when you are dpsâing in a group environment.
This just seems like a complaint to complain. I mean whatâs next, complaining that Sap should be useful in 1v1 pve? Since when do our tools need to be equally useful in all situations?
Well in shadowlands most of the buffs that appeared when running in that darn rogue like dungeon gave some sort of buff to vanish attacks. (Most of the epic ones) I fear these new rogue like experiences will do the same.
I like soloing. But I donât like to have the numbers tuned around non-soloing dps values. Blizzard has done it once and may do it again if no one points it out.
Rogue is already hard for some of us to play. There is no reason to make it harder by ignoring this issue and tuning everything around the wrong numbers.
Especially not when Blizzard likes to tune things super friggen tight the higher up you go.
Against random mobs while questing you can usually start from stealth whenever you want so itâs a non-issue.
Against any elite mobs or delve final bosses where youâre going to want to maximize your DPS in order to kill before you run out of defensives (especially at the beginning of the expansion when weâre under geared), suddenly youâre going to find it more difficult, especially as Sub/OL. As OL, you get one crackshot window for that whole fight with Shadow Dance gone.
True, true.
At that point an extra charge of Vanish isnât going to do lick against an elite.
But we are made to fight elites during the end of Delves. Shouldnât we get access to all of our dps when soloing them.
Even if itâs a âsmallâ amount in your eyes. Every bit of damage helps. Especially when half the skills you will pick up will probably be vanish based.
Especially when most rogues look like they are playing a keyboard like a expert against a warlock face rolling from left to right getting way better dps.
I agree.
Other classes faceroll against elites. Rogues have to be pull out a spreadsheet to figure out how to take down an elite.
My 2 cents
I donât mind Vanish as a raid cool down as it does provide a nice boost when timed correctly.
What I donât like is having our whole rotation revolve around stealth, especially all three specs. Itâs ok for Subtlety, but has no place in Assassination and Outlaw.
@OP
If youâre using Vanish as a dps cool down for solo content, youâre doing it wrong. It has never been intended for that purpose. It sucks that rogues, unlike other classes, struggle with elites. But making Vanish a solo dps cool down isnât the answer. Rogues have always been squishy and thatâs a topic for another day.
Gotta admit I donât like to use it, but sometimes times the muscle memory hits it when I am trying to maximize dps.
In general I donât like vanish being used as a dps cooldown at all. I wish it would just stay as my escape button.
But the amount I am struggling with rogue dps in general it makes me want to point this dumb stuff out. In hopes they may fix it and make life easier for all rogues.
i could solve these problems for you
Thank you master Saifu. You are the best!
My opinion? This opinion sucks.
Rogue will be an objectively harder class to play solo.
There should be some things you can do efficiently alone (like sneak through a cave without fighting anything), but you should never be optimally efficient in all things alone. Looking at you Havoc DHâŠ
On principle, Rogue should be an absolute beast when paired with a tank.
The problem is every DPS is just as effective and brings 10x the utility. Rogue control utility is mostly defensive or PvP because we simply canât afford the overhead in PvE where we donât need the defensive (e.g., stun kiting). And thereâs no other real reason a tank would pair with a Rogue instead of any other damage dealer across the entire game.
To me, whatâs killing Rogue is being a bad partner because of bad takes that Rogue should be a bad partner. I should open opportunities for my teammates and should 10x their ability by setting enemies off-balance. But that gameplay loop just simply isnât there, because Blizzard is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of providing any form of support framework after the Aug fiasco in S2.
I wrote up a fight summary for a Dragonflight Rare as an Outlaw Rogue versus a BM Hunter here: Encounter balance. This is one of the biggest hurdles facing delves â the classes are nowhere near equally competent and unless they add mechanics that can be bypassed by Rogue (and other classes complain about), they canât balance the cards and keep them fun and true to their fantasy roles.