Using delves to shove folks into mythics

Community General Discussion
122

Wow, Blizz is really on a roll, aren’t they?

First, we had The Maintenance Within for what, close to 3 months before that crap finally calmed down?

Then, they keep stumbling and slipping on banana peels when it comes to the WC remasters…

Then, they fumble Timewalking hard to where it’s an almost unplayable mess that in no way does what it’s advertised to do (which is letting you relive at least a semblance of what those dungeons were).

And now S1 M+ apparently blows.

At least Delves are awesome and the outdoor content is actually rather good.

That wasn’t directed at Maurdeth specifically. Perhaps I could have articulated better, but I was directing that at, and I quote,

… though I suppose that I did so in a post replying to Maurdeth kinda makes it look like that.

1 Like
123

So, here we are, 13 (14?) weeks into Delves being active and your posting character is 612.

Sen, I like you, but this helps my case more than anything else. We will do some math. Correct me if I am wrong, but google tells me that Delves 8 and up always drop 2 Runed Crests.

Your profile is private, so I am going to make some guesses here, which would give your character the least amount of upgrades needed to hit 619.

In fact, let’s just bump your ilvl to 613 and say that your gear is either 6/8 Champion or 2/6 Hero. In this scenario, all of your gear slots are at 613 to make your average ilvl 613.

I will also assume you are using a 2h Weapon, which saves you a slot–and total crests needed–to hit 619. You have 16 slots to upgrade twice, for a total of 32 Upgrades. 32 Upgrades * 15 == 480 Crests needed.

As a Delver, how many are you doing a week? Are you doing 8 to fill vault, or are you only doing the 4 Bountiful you get per week? Let’s say you REALLY like doing Devles and you’re doing 12 Delves a week at level 8 or higher.

12 * 2 = 24. You are receiving 24 Runed Crests a week for your efforts. 480/24 == 20 Weeks needed to make all of your gear 619 at this rate of gameplay. If you’re able to finish your gear…at this rate of gameplay, we should already be in 4-6 weeks into Season 2 because that will put us into the week of April 20, 2025.

There are shortcuts, of course. You can take some of your Runed Crests and just make a crafted piece–but these cannot be upgraded further without 90 Gilded Crests.

The outliers here are the crazy people who are doing like 25 delves a week. I heard there is a cap of like 56 Runed Crests from delves a week, which I cannot verify as true or not. The point is that most people who only Delve would not be affected in any negative way by their gear being limited to Champion track because a regular person who invests regular time into the game as a Delver only isn’t even going to be able to max Champion gear in time

The exception is the crazy people doing Delves willfully to earn Runed Crests until they have completely exhausted their ability to upgrade gear doing strictly Delves.

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People constantly makes posts about it like a lunatic so I’m gonna say yes

If I had a nickel everytime I saw a “How to fix/solve/revamp” or “Solution to M+” topic I’d be rich. Good thing M+ isn’t a horse it would’ve been beaten well beyond to death

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Maybe Blizz wants to leave the door open for people to “graduate” from Delves to M+?

I mean, I don’t believe that Blizz is trying to SHOVE people into M+ but yet they surely want to leave the door open to make a transition possible if that were desired?

Is there something wrong with leaving the possibility there?

4 Likes
126

I am trying to understand this logic after watching that Bellular video about delves->M+.

They are two separate playstyles and I do not see anyone being forced to join M+.

I have a 67-year-old mother who loves Delves because she can do it at her own pace, has the best gear you can get from them and has never thought about M+.

Her cap is whatever is from Delves because she is ‘too old’ (she says! X for doubt) to do timed group content. Is there something I am missing? Or is it the want for more challenging Delves equal to M+ difficulty and item level? My community has the latter sentiment in wanting more challenge/reward.

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127

Much of it is just aesthetics including ilvl.
Which matters more ilvl or the fact that we as a group, attempted this raid boss 20 times to get our strategy right…in blues.
Which matters more your ilvl or you repeating the same dungeons over and over till you get it right?

Sure the people pugging are just trying to meet demands of pug leaders,
in which case is a pug life issue and nothing else.

128

The possibility would still be there either way. I do think this could incentivize it somewhat but I don’t think that’s actually bad either.

It is certainly not going to result in people “ruining” the pug scene. If those people are able to push their own key to 8s then that is the keystone system working as intended. As has always been the case.

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129

You’re missing the Elitist Gated Community that believes that if you don’t do M+ then you don’t deserve the kind of gear that Delves gives, and you’re also missing that some M+ people are using Delves as a stepping stone to get to higher keys faster by trying to skip some lower keys with Delve gear but yet they hate Delves because it’s too easy for them.

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130

I encourage you to read further up the conversation.

What I am saying is that Delver only folks do not want to do group content in the first place, but having Hero gear available pushes them into doing M+ once they reach the 619 wall which will ultimately lead them into M+ because it’s the most readily available source of Gilded Crests.

Content that they do not want to play, participate in, etc. This is only happening because they are getting Hero gear from Delves. It is creating huge frustrations for everyone involved. Players who have not interacted with one another for over a decade are being shuffled into the same group which creates this toxicity that we’re all experiencing.

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Uh?

I fail to see how that logic computes.

You’re trying to say that if zero Hero gear dropped at all, Delvers would be content to stop at 8/8 Champion, but yet because Hero gear drops they somehow feel compelled to keep upgrading it even though they must run M+ to do so?

What?

That makes zero sense.

2 Likes
132

I kinda liked how easy it was to get the mount and the fact the affixes are combined so you don’t need two sets of keys each dungeon to get good score

What do people not like this season?
Tank nerfs aside, which isn’t inherently a mythic problem, but a general one

I thought this myself. The biggest barrier to players dipping their feet in the mythic water is there’s no way to practice and learn the general mechanics you’ll need to gain mastery over, without trial by fire/possibly bricking someone’s key. That can be daunting for people. I think higher lvl delve offer a great, no risk no pressure, stepping stone between heroics and mythics without forcing anything and being rewarding on their own. You can really hone your skills with a spec in delves and if you feel like stepping into deeper waters, it teaches you how to swim

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Solo players have never had Heroic ilvl gear available from solo play until now.

There is a direct correlation.

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To be honest, I know this is a hot take, but M+1-10 shouldn’t use Keys at all. It should use the same system Delves use, a drop-down box that lets you try as many times as you want, but you have to fulfill certain things to “qualify” to increase your limit.

IE, you step into M+8 and you must complete the dungeon within X time or <x deaths to qualify to get up to +9, but no keys nonsense.

After +10 then you start doing keys and that’s only for the upper 1% of M+ players.

/shrug

That still doesn’t make any sense. If a delver doesn’t wanna do M+ they ain’t gonna do M+, lol. They could be wearing 8/8 Champion or whatever the equivalent Hero.

Just because it’s like 1/8 Hero doesn’t mean they go “I MUST UPGRADE THIS! I MUST GO TO M+!” even though they don’t want to or they don’t have the skill to.

Now, it is true, that some Delvers might want to try out M+, but nobody goes to M+ unless they want to.

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I would say so.
Going into TWW they nerfed tank self-sustain, bumped up the key for max track vault rewards by two levels and the key for max crest reward by three levels, added Challenger’s Peril which only incentivizes people to leave sooner, combined Fortified and Tyrannical at the same key you need for max track vault loot meaning it’s a greater leap from +9 to +10 than it previously was, made it so CC can no longer interrupt casts so you have to coordinate interrupts, and it’s the first season of the expansion so every class is in its weakest possible iteration. It all coalesces into an absolutely rancid pug experience, because you’re working much harder, having to coordinate much more, for much less of a reward.

I don’t.

Fair, thanks for the clarification.
Still worth leaving it in, I suppose, since someone else might take my complaining as some call to nerf or change Delves.

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Read a few posts down, I clarified that it wasn’t aimed at you specifically or even at all.

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A solo path to progression has limits. This is not Skyrim. You will not get the equivalent of enchanted dragonbone armor for playing solo. Perhaps MMORPGs are just not for these people?

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I think a lot of pressure and frustration could be avoided by not having keys deplete under mythic 10+
Failing the challenge and getting 5 crests instead of 12 is punishment enough imo

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To be honest, I always thought MMOs that have the hardest content dropping gear to be absolutely silly, just like a single player JRPG.

“YAY I GOT THE INFINITY +1 SWORD!”

“What are you gonna use that sword on?”

“Uh I dunno…”

So you kill the strongest thing in the game and he drops gear. WTF do you need the gear for?

Final bosses should always be achievements and aesthetics.

EDIT: Also comparing it to Skyrim is just hilariously silly because Skyrim is a broken unbalanced mess of a game. It can be fun to play, sure. But game balance in ES games never really existed. They are all, and always, broken AF.

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140

KSM, KSH, AOTC for me.

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And this is why I-level from solo content doesn’t harm you.

You do AOTC, you have an achievement you link.

You kill the final boss of a mythic raid, you get a mount you can show everybody what you did.

Unless, of course, you bought a carry which is just stupid that it’s possible to do that, but eh.

/shrug

Not relevant to the topic.