Yes, this toon has pieces which could be upgraded, but I certainly don’t feel like I have to run M+.
1 Like
Claiming that people trying to push into content is “ruining” content for others itself is an absurd framing in of itself as well. Yes, people are bad when they first push into content. But this is how we maintain liveliness in these game modes. People have a bad dungeon and they just move on, simple as that.
1 Like
You don’t even have to specify delves there.
The entire PvE end-game right now is tuned with the expectation that you’re doing M+.
2 Likes
Yep.
You read a lot from people about how they “just want to raise others up” that they “love seeing people challenge themselves and overcome those challenges.”
Until it involves the pug they listed. Then they’ve ruined the game for them by challenging themselves.
“I want to see those people challenge themselves and overcome it but I want them to do it out of my sight and out of my key range.”
2 Likes
My position is this.
Keys are fine where they are at. They do not need buffed or nerfed.
Delves are fine where they are at, but should not award Hero gear. I do not think that Delves should be cut off from earning Runed Crests. They could even award Gilded Crests if they also buff Gilded Crests access in Raid and M+. I do not care if Delvers get to max Myth gear or max Hero gear so long as raiders and M+ have equity such as Gilded dropping double what it does in Mythic Raid and Heroic Raid dropping Gilded starting at boss 5 and Gilded Crests starting to drop at M+ 6–simply put, Delves are the easiest mode of content for what they award. There is nothing wrong with this in my opinion.
Until they do that…
Awarding Hero gear from Delve is what ultimately leads to these unfortunate run-ins between Delvers and Puggers. Not every Delver is pursuing Gilded Crests because they have been so turned off by group content that they don’t bother. Those who do, it is very obvious when they are Delvers or Solo players not accustomed to group content which leads to both parties experiencing increasing frustration.
Oh I believe it
M+ community stomped loud enough that gilded drops from 8s now. Some believe 7 should as well
This isn’t a systemic problem and this isn’t something that began with Delves.
I’m 613 on my Pally and 612 on this character. I only run Delves. How am I not part of this conversation?
2 Likes
Why would they be funneled into +4 keystones to get Runed crests, when they can get Runed crests out of Bountiful T8 Delves?
The issue seems to be that “my gear could go to 626, but I’m stuck at 619” and Adaia’s suggestion to only drop Champion gear in both end-of-run and vault for Delves would fix that issue (can fully upgrade the gear from Delves with runes from Delves).
However, as Sendryn said, not every Delve-preference player has that “I MUST max out my gear to 626 and therefore I am FORCED to do +8 keys!” mindset… some just accept that 619 is about as high as they’re going to get with the occasional Gilded Crests from a special map for Delves (extra chest with very low rate of 2 crests per map).
Maybe you’re saying “you believe that’s where all ambition will end” means that no matter where open-world casual Delvers get capped, they will mostly complain if that cap is anything less than full Mythic Raid gear. If that’s your assertion, I’d be fine with them offering Mythic-Track gear if Tier-XX delves actually had a difficulty on par with Boss-1 in Mythic Raid or a +10 keystone (they don’t now, so that’d be a veto on my part unless a difficulty change happened between T8 and Txx).
Thanks to crafted gear and going for KSM my highest is finally 619 
Had I gone for 619 through delves I would be so burnt out on them by now.
But apparently the problem begins at gilded crests for those last two track levels?
Track levels that even I, as a person who enjoys both delves and M+, is not concerned about lol.
It’s not hard to time a 4 by any stretch of the imagination. For any person capable of clearing a T8 in 10 minutes we’re talking 20-30 minutes to get 6x the crests from a +4.
After hitting 610 delves became a slog for crests. I went for KSM around that time and leaped 7 ilvls in a week without getting an item upgrade…
I would just like them to make it so that for crest catchup, there are viable alternatives to M+.
2 Likes
The reply wasnt in reference to you…
But you are not at the point of your gear being 4/6 Hero (619) where your next upgrade path is Gilded.
Delvers who get to the aforementioned point of gear eventually realize that Delves are a very poor source of Gilded Crests where they will then be driven to pursue M+ 8 in order to finish their gear.
You get what, 2 gilded crests for the special treasure map? Lets pretend you get 3 a week by some insane stroke of luck for a total of 6.
You would need 16 item slots × 30 crests = 480 Gilded Crests to ultimately max 6/6 Hero
480 / 6 (not happening btw) = 80 weeks to max gear on Delves if you had absolutely insane luck every week you played
2 Likes
That’d be nice but literally anyone farming crests for any reason is funneled into M+. It is objectively the best way to farm every level of crest.
Ultimately the root of the problem is the upgrade system. Otherwise we end up in this situation where any content introduced must be limited in rewards to gatekeep M+ key levels to preserve the “integrity” of the mode.
Sacrifices will need to be made somewhere eventually.
1 Like
The counterpoint: then they’ll slow down the Crest acquisition to lengthen how long it’ll take to max out that gear and we’re back to the same thing. There’s a couple of reasons we don’t get higher Crests at higher rates:
- So that Delves are our season long content and we still have something to strive for. It’s the casual way of slowly gearing to higher ilevels.
- So that other end game content pillars don’t feel like they have to go into Delves to get them.
Your assumption is incorrect, though. People aren’t dumb. Most know they hit their ceiling and if they don’t want to go into M+, they won’t.
1 Like
I do delves, and don’t do mythics… and I have never felt pushed to do mythics. This is a you thing.
2 Likes
Even if we get rid of the upgrade system, M+ remains the best way to farm gear, as it’s the only pillar that has no rate limit.
1 Like
I like M+ but I admit I struggle with a solution for the expectations and limitations that M+ places on every other form of PvE content.
Again I think of M+ as the Marcia Brady of WoW modes. Everything comes down to what it needs to be the best option while also gatekeeping the undesirables out of it.
Realistically, there’s not much that can be done without rate-limiting M+ end of dungeon rewards.
1 Like
People are gonna dislike this, but I’m gonna say it. If you are a solo player, and do not enjoy group content or M+ content, then you do not need myth track gear. You can get all of the appearances for your set from the mythic version by upgrading heroic gear. And you’re not doing content which requires the best gear in the game.
If you want the best gear in the game, do content which requires it.
Of course Delves were. It was a means of getting people heroic and champion level gear for very little effort, and you take that gear into harder / more difficult content. That’s how it’s always been.
You ARE aware that you can also get champion track gear from faction vendors right?
Right? This doesn’t fix anything.
Lemme quote this again so you guys can have a better understanding
So what’s the gameplan when you’re no longer getting upgrades?
Congratulations, your progression has ended. But I’m pretty sure I brought up the Runed Crests change in delves because Blizzard doesn’t want that to happen.
You’re also forgetting another important factor… TW events that also gives hero track weekly
So what’s the plan? Suggest TW no longer gives hero as well?
I agree with your sentiment OP … Delves right now are certainly NOT a “pillar of endgame” like they claimed before the expansion launched.
There is just no way they can be. The gear progression balance is completely out of whack. For solo, more casual players, Delves are great week 1-4, maybe 5 … Gear progression is fast (too fast IMO), but once you get to the point where you have all champion gear up to 606 item level, gear progression hit’s a massive wall because of the lack of rune crests, and it just becomes such huge grind of weekly world content you’ve done countless times and more delves you’ve already done countless times. It’s not worth it for miniscule ilevel gains. On one toon, I stopped at 616 and the other 610 … the grind is really bad.
Balance between specs should also be looked it. Some class/specs (tanks, those with tones of utility and healing) can solo t8’s at 550 item level, while others require way more gear.
There is also the lack of variety. They are all basically glorified world quests with multiple stages. Even with the different stories (which I still appreciate), they all feel very similar.
I can go on, and I probably will create one big feedback thread at some point, but as it stands, Delves are no where close to being sustainable content for an entire season like raids, m+, pvp can be. They need a lot of work. Hopefully that’s what Blizzard intends, and not them just being glorified world content with better gear to catch up alts (like they are now). Because that would be very disappointing.