On release I could see that delves were primarily intended to be preseason gearing for end game competitors. Second was to be an achievement for those people who were looking for something to do when their buddies had logged off for the week. Third was yet another attempt to funnel casuals into mythic+ or raiding in order to be able to upgrade their gear. Delves as a standalone gameplay mode for people who have chosen not to do competitive content falls a distant fourth on my list.
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Nope, it’s Torghast with rewards, that gave players like you a way to get gear good enough to do keys, if you choose.
I haven’t run any mythics this expansion, yet. I enjoyed them before the difficulty increased. I hung about in the 5 to 12 range, now entry is the equivalent of an old 10. If anything, delving gave me something to do.
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Is it not perfectly acceptable to roughly call 619 your cap and move on to gearing another toon? I get a taste of M+ every season but I just see delves as supplementing that original goal. If I wasn’t interested in M+ I’d just call delves my gear ceiling (really they are anyhow, I got no upgrades from M+ on my KSM journey) so I don’t understand this perspective.
Is anything that gives your character any level of power just a subtle shove toward M+? I’m not seeing the conspiracy here.
I would think if they wanted to funnel people into M+ then it would have been at the runed crest level rather than providing an ilvl that won’t be improved by much until hitting +8s lol.
I think what happens is that Delver only players get Hero gear, get it to 619 and then see theres still 2 levels to upgrade to get to 626.
Because there’s still room to upgrade it, they eventually figure out they need Gilded Crests and eventually realize that Delves are an exceptionally poor source of Gilded Crests where they are then lead to Mythic +
The problem that arises is that Delvers don’t want to inherently participate in M+, but some feel compelled to do so because they want to max their gear, and because they can get to 619 doing only Delves, they are often 8 key levels behind where they need to be playing to get Gilded Crests.
So here’s what happens:
- They easily get their own keys to 8, because its not hard to push a key to 8 (especially at this point in the season)
- They clear 5-6 range easily to get some score and look valid on paper because these are extremely easy key levels and deaths don’t matter yet
- They get to 8s with an alright score and valud ilvl, where they are then blindsided by the sudden 1 shot mechanics, deaths mattering a lot more because its -15 seconds instead of -5, flop, don’t hit interrupts, have low DPS, etc
- Everyone is more toxic overall because the present gameplay culminates in players who would normally never want to be in the same group with each other (solo minded players vs puggers)
The best solution is probably to have Delve gear cap at Champion level. This still enables solo players to be Heroic Raid geared but stops them from having to pursue Gilded Crests where they will most likely clash with other players
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I’m not really buying it lol.
Same thing would happen if they were capped at champion gear/lower crests. They’d end up running lower keys for runed crests to finish that track out.
Which would end up getting them some heroic pieces, which would then lead to them still pushing into the same ranges.
This isn’t funneling people into M+ any more than they were nudged that way before.
Sounds like the root of your problem is the upgrade system to me, not delves or delve gear.
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Myz is right, this doesn’t solve the problem. Because then we’re slowed down on getting the Crests to max out the Champ gear.
The gearing is fine as it is. There is not a systemic issue of Delvers dropping into +10s or whatever ruining everyone’s keys. After some poking around in general chats on a few higher pop servers, no one has claimed to feel pushed into M+ and understands their slow climb to Gilded if they want or they’re just at their ceiling.
Just like we all were at our ceiling when we had our lower key bracket.
We’re not dumb. We don’t do what we know we can’t do and we don’t demand higher stuff. Only a few rare outliers here on the forums complain about that.
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Hero doesn’t drop until M+ 7, a bracket that Delvers would not need to touch. They would only need to do 4s for the purpose of Runed
And if they are only funneled into 4s you believe that’s where all ambition will end for most?
This still by the same standards funnels people into M+. It’s just at a more acceptable level for where you want them to be.
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If they max their gear, yes, I do believe they wouldn’t have any desire to go higher.
They are also able to just do Delves–as they do already–to max their gear to 8/8 Champion…which is the same as 4/6 Hero
You know what would also solve it? Giving them a better path to runed and gilded crests within delves.
But that would be giving them something. 
Not taking something.
And then M+ players would complain about “being funneled into delves.”
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I have no intentions of playing Mythic+… As it is the base design of Mythic+ is responsible for how the M+ community thinks and acts and I don’t care for stressful gameplay… That’s not to say that I can’t enjoy fast paced or difficult content but I refuse to put my time into something literally designed to punish me and amp up everyone participating to the point that its similar to driving in traffic…
Delves need to be their own pillar with their own endgame… Forcing Delve players into Mythic+ will just result in Delves and Mythic+ losing players not a boon for both.
I ran a Bountiful 8 Delve an hour ago and had a lot of fun. You cannot pay me enough money to sit in a group finder trying to beg for a spot in a low level mythic because I have yet to jump through the numerous hoops it takes to run a mythic dungeon… Forget it.
Bingo.
There’s a reason why Blizzard patched in Delves to offer infinite Runed at the start of S1 because they realized some of us weren’t going to step into M+. Delvers would’ve very much been hardwalled on progression upgrading the gear we get out of them so the only options would’ve been run is to run 4-7s.
Suggesting the gear to be downgraded in the vault is dumb because
- Crest Conversion is a thing
- You will reach a point when the vault will no longer provide upgrades and take your 6 coins to help with crest conversion
- Assuming the delver doesn’t do keys at all there’s heroic raid which also reinforces point 1 considering Heroic gives Runed
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Most Delver onlys I have seen just get their Runed from Delves without ever touching M+. They don’t need to get Gilded until much later.
The problem I’m trying to articulate is that the way the rewards drop, some players end up doing content they do not want to do or are prepared to do which therein leads to players clashing with one another more than they would otherwise.
I do not think that Delver onlys, open world or solo players are ‘stupid’. I think they are pushed into doing content they don’t actually want to do (M+) because they have the ability to pursue 4/6 Hero >> 6/6 Hero which ultimately leads to huge frustrations for both the pug scene and solo player scene which creates a toxic experience
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If you don’t do M+ why do you need hugher Ilvl gear? Theres a dead end for everybody. Even M+ players. They need the Ilvl due to the difficulty of the content. This just screams "meh, i don’t want to work for good loot, but i want good loot. " its a bad look man.
From my perspective, I think you’re outta touch. I don’t feel or think I have to do M+ whatsoever regardless of whatever the key level is or will be.
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So you think that if you could clear T12 delves you should get Mythic-track gear in the vault and that T10 delves should give Gilded Crests instead of Runed? Is that the gist of your suggestion (because describing an issue with at least one idea for a solution is so much better than just complaining for complaining’s sake).
The devs never said/insinuated that Delves would get you mythic-track gear. Try to be clear what “solo path to progression” means to you and how Delves fall short of that meaning, because I’m just guessing it’s myth-track gear but I really have no idea because you were quite vague about the specifics of your issue with the design.
The devs also said Delves can be done solo or with a group of friends up to five. It was never intended as solo-only content. Just an option for those that don’t care for M+ nor Raid… a little something more for open-world players (despite Delves being instanced content and not open-world).
You’re also 612. You’re not in the conversation.
Ironically the funny part about this discussion is that it shows that despite all of the “delves invalidated keys below +7” we’re finding that 4s are a better way to farm crests than delves ever were.
Which has been part of my argument against delves being over rewarding since they came into the picture. That there is more to “reward” than just the ilvl of gear at EoD or vault.
Do we both understand that ‘keys below 7 are invalidated because of Delves’ is not an argument I have made or supported?
I wouldn’t know without you saying it. I know that now.
I’m not conflating your statements with the argument I’m simply making an observation that should be obvious to anyone who has ever made that argument.
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