[UPDATED] Mage and Paladin Tuning Incoming - July 18

[Caithyra-bleeding-hollow]

@Kaivax

Added to OP:

Holy Paladin is overperforming in all content in Fractures of Time. We are targeting a global decrease of healing and damage as we are not looking to change preferred playstyles, but Tyr’s Deliverance will also be receiving additional adjustments as this talent in particular has been more effective than we would like.

Holy Paladins’ mana pools have been more plentiful than we would like in PvP. We’re targeting their base Mana regeneration to encourage player engagement with the variety of mana talents available.

Paladin

Holy

• All healing decreased by 8%.
• All damage decreased by 12%.
• Tyr’s Deliverance healing decreased by 15%.
• PvP
  • Holy Paladins now regenerate 60% less Mana in PvP combat (was 25%).

Really needs to be more than this. Even with the nerfs Hpals are still going to be #1 in hps and dps in keys. Their damage output is ridiculous compared to every other healer ingame.

This week shattered the whole “play what you want” aspect of Dragonflight and has created hard metas on just about everything in M+.

[Iason-aggramar]

The crybabies got what they wanted now everyone is gonna have a harder time trying to time 25+ keys, this affects not only holy paladin but dps also.

[Padgarre-lightbringer (Padgarre)]

Nerf Paladins

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Kaivax

Added to OP:

Holy Paladin is overperforming in all content in Fractures of Time. We are targeting a global decrease of healing and damage as we are not looking to change preferred playstyles, but Tyr’s Deliverance will also be receiving additional adjustments as this talent in particular has been more effective than we would like.

Holy Paladins’ mana pools have been more plentiful than we would like in PvP. We’re targeting their base Mana regeneration to encourage player engagement with the variety of mana talents available.

Paladin

Holy

• All healing decreased by 8%.
• All damage decreased by 12%.
• Tyr’s Deliverance healing decreased by 15%.
• PvP
  • Holy Paladins now regenerate 60% less Mana in PvP combat (was 25%).

Augmentation waiting for more weeks of “data”?

[Zealchair-dalaran]

Let them have fun for once. Bears were the worst tank for all s1.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Cayleynne-cenarion-circle

I don’t understand this need to push down rather than lift up…

If a flat 8/15% nerf was what is going to “bring pallys in line” why not just… give other healers that instead?

For people who are happy about this, what would you rather have…

1. Wake up one day, and your raid is worse, your M+ group is worse, but some ephemeral sense of balance has been restored because we got those holy paladins.
2. Your raid, and M+ groups are better universally, and that sense of balance is there because everyones class has gotten better?

What’s the downside to buffing 8/15% all other healers? Raid’s a smidge easier… okay?
M+ keys are infinitely scalable, so groups that were doing 26/27’s whatever are doing… 27/28’s? groups that weren’t are a little more competitive?

Constantly buffing everyone instead of adjusting outliers would be a terrible balancing plan.

Just constant power creep.

[Yomamaso-thrall]

You all are funny. It’s obvious you don’t talk amongst yourselves when you’re developing. The nerf to Tyr’s is at a different level of ridiculous. NOBODY was playing what everyone assumed to be a fun and engaging healing style because it was THAT bad. But you went and buffed glimmer AND Tyrs, then decided to nerf Tyrs into the ground. Your biggest and most obvious mistake was to introduce “Daybreak” as a Monk “pop” heal because you lack creativity. Then you go head and nerf the whole gamut.

Just DELETE Daybreak. It’s not even unique. Now we’re back to dumb dumb dumb melee healing + glimmer spam. So boring and repetitive. You finally make a change that seemed intelligent to resurrect a dying ability only to basically eliminate it again. What a waste of internal money and resources.

[Chokii-bleeding-hollow]

@Adaia-moon-guard

Ret was nerfed the day of the rework, the week after the rework, the next week after the rework, and then again on the 3rd week of the rework

More…more! MORE! MEAHAHAH!! Twiddles my evil little valerian paws as I plot further evil in the shadows of my profile icon

And you’ll never know my identity due to the shadows upon me!

[Ionah-tichondrius]

@Caithyra-bleeding-hollow

This week shattered the whole “play what you want” aspect of Dragonflight and has created hard metas on just about everything in M+.

bruh this hasn’t been the case for most of the expansion. There have been clear top/bottom preforming specs in all rolls for the entire expansion.

[Brainard-area-52]

Hey Kaivax!

I was wondering if you (or someone else) could explain why Arcane is getting a bigger AoE nerf than Frost?

Both current performance logs and sims should Frost is better at AoE than Arcane currently, and even the mage theorycrafters aren’t sure why this change was decided. Here’s a video of Toegrinder talking about it:

Mage Nerfs - thoughts and sims on new DPS

[Bullëtproof-zuljin]

No lust.
No brez.
No immune.

PI is what props Spriest up in M+ for the most part, not MD. If you wanna argue MD in certain dungeons I’ll allow it, but it’s not universally useful unlike everything I listed above.

[Twily-stormrage]

@Malgorok-zuljin

“Wow how dare blizzard ruin my fun!”

Some classes are just superior to the others, that is how it has always been.

[Drachkin-thrall]

@Valthîas-tichondrius

yeah exactly… browsing logs of 26+ keys with the 3k+ io best Holy Paladins (with Aug Evoker in group) I am seeing DPS overall average 40-50k.

Even before evokers got augmentation - holy paladins were top dps by a large margin

[Guuah-wyrmrest-accord]

@Kaivax

Holy Paladins now regenerate 60% less Mana in PvP combat (was 25%).

Gonna admit that’s an interesting choice. Ain’t ever heard of a specific spec getting their MP5 nerfed in PvP.

Whole thing is just confusing to me because the core of the issue seems to be Augmentation just being really strong, and Mages eat that right up to launch tactical nukes against anything that moves.

Holy Din is really darn strong though. Think the nerfs are justified…if not the weird PvP specific MP5 hit.

[Essexqt-blackhand]

PI is powerful too but won’t allow you to survive a mass pull with bursting

I see priest brought specifically for their dispel / cc capabilities. The pi is a bonus.

[Snozy-pagle]

@Bullëtproof-zuljin

PI is what props Spriest up in M+ for the most part, not MD. If you wanna argue MD in certain dungeons I’ll allow it, but it’s not universally useful unlike everything I listed above.

You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Shadow is meta because of multiple reasons.

Pi
Md
Shackle
Vt
Good damage
Decent off healing with halo

Like why even post something when you clearly don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about.

[Cayleynne-cenarion-circle]

We’re talking a key level or two… by this logic gear ilvl should never change either?

[Valthîas-tichondrius]

Not by a large margin, no. But also, Holy is the only healer spec that is literally constantly forced to DO DAMAGE to generate Holy Power, in order to HEAL. So of course it should be doing more DPS than most other healers.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Cayleynne-cenarion-circle

We’re talking a key level or two… by this logic gear ilvl should never change either?

A key level or 2 every time they make adjustments.

So what, like 8-10 key levels so far in season 2?

People running 38s and 39s and mythic raid feeling raider than heroic?

And gear is designed specifically to make a soft power shift. Just flat buffing everyone all the time is just breaking the game.

[Boostins-lightbringer]

Im just happy that judgment gives hp like it freaking should have back in Oct 2020 when we had hp forced on us for reasons.