Nope, they threw trash at WoTLK in general. I play WoTLK, generally speaking.
You’re reaching like Dhalsim atm.
Face it, you’re your own worst enemy when it comes to buffs.
And you’re a Ret hater. You want the spec removed. That’s an opinion no one is going to take seriously.
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I have a warrior and shaman alt both geared. My shaman is MS resto but my OS as ele actually feels fine. We have a really good ele in our raid who pumps. My warrior on the other hand… Fury with prot OS and both feel so bad to play lol. For context I am a sweaty player who does research and tries to min max. My raid is well above average where all members are 95-99.5 on their Warcraft logs sheet. Anyway my warrior feels so awful to play in either spec its just sad as he is my favorite. When I play fury it feels like I am absolutely blasting until I need to scroll my dps meter down and wonder why I bother. Then I swap to my SV hunter and feel like I’m on auto pilot doing way more dps with way less effort. Ok cool lets play Prot I got a 5100 Prot set. Well we have a paladin so I guess 70% of the bosses I don’t need to actually tank because Pally does it better and safer. Aoe threat after 15 seconds non existant, ST threat better not pop off for 10 seconds while I get a nice lead instead of a DK who Icy touchx4 and afks. Feels like even if you are prot and not in a speed running top in the world guild bring a Pally and go Fury for all the 1 tank bosses which is most of them…
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You’re looking at this from the perspective of a min maxer who cares about being as good as possible.
Game developers don’t give a s@#$ about that. They want the average player to be able to clear content with an average amount of effort. You min maxers are basically way stronger than you actually need to be to clear content, which is part of why logs are BS. It puts an unnecessary gate on average and below average players, who ultimately are still plenty strong enough to clear the content.
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I just miss Yama.
He was on here flexing. Got exposed on who his warrior is and hasn’t been seen since…
Cuz looking up a bis list and your rotation is super hard.
Which… Really doesn’t matter unless Blizzard messes with the tuning to challenge groups that stack the ones with an edge over all other options
Just let them optimize the game to the point of being a joke, it’s their own fault.
The harder you make the game, the tighter the balancing needs to be between the DPS specs
Changing this to 90th percentile tells an entirely different story.
Fury: 8435
Frost mage: 8414
Ret: 8266
Top is Fire mage: 10099
Further, can’t find a single top speed clear without at least 1 warrior.
Now, compared to classic(Naxx):
Warrior:1274.21
Balance: 500.66
Molten Core:
Warriors 920.80
Balance: 376.33
In TBC they were 2nd in Kara, all the way down to 3rd in SWP.
Tank-wise, Warriors were bis there too, I mean, Prot pally didn’t even have a taunt in the beginning.
Warriors basically dominated for 11 straight phases, I think they can live with being 15% behind the top dps for 3 phases.
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Pally was essentially BIS tank in TBC from the moment players were in epic gear.
The whole position that “Warriors had it good so they can suck now” is an emotional argument that should have no bearing on the discussion. Players are different and playing different specs and classes now anyway and the whole argument is based on resentment and flawed recollections of different content.
If we are going to balance the game there needs to be baselining of current performances and then a threshold needs to be set defining what is an acceptable level of variance from the average of those baselines. That should form the basis of decisions about balance - not how much you feel x or y class “deserve” something. The acceptable threshold should be the same for any class. Not bigger for the ones you think “deserve it” etc …
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Y’all crying as if fury is literally unplayable.
A really good sim came out recently showing Phase 4 and 5 dps with what info we have. Not every item and interaction can be tested, but this is a good baseline.
| Class Phase 4 | DPS | Class Phase 5 | DPS |
|---|---|---|---|
| DK Unholy DW | 14,525 | DK Unholy DW | 14,800 |
| DK Blood | 14,550 | Shaman Enh | 15,100 |
| *Rogue Muti | 14,825 | *Rogue Muti | 15,100 |
| Shaman Enh | 14,925 | DK Blood | 15,150 |
| *Rogue Combat | 15,100 | DK Unholy 2h | 15,200 |
| Warlock Demo | 15,100 | Warlock Demo | 15,300 |
| DK Unholy 2h | 15,125 | *Retribution | 15,450+ |
| *Retribution | 15,175+ | *Rogue Combat | 15,550 |
| *Warlock Destro | 15,500 | Druid Balance | 15,775 |
| Hunter SV | 15,525 | Hunter SV | 15,825 |
| Shaman Ele | 15,575 | Shaman Ele | 15,850 |
| Druid Balance | 15,650 | *Warlock Destro | 15,850 |
| DK Frost | 15,825 | DK Frost | 16,050 |
| Hunter MM | 16,175 | Hunter MM | 16,525 |
| Priest Shadow | 16,725 | Priest Shadow | 16,950 |
| *Warrior Fury | 16,725 | *Warrior Fury | 17,200 |
| *Druid Feral | 17,025 | *Druid Feral | 17,375 |
| *Warlock Aff | 17,250 | *Warlock Aff | 17,450 |
| *Mage Fire | 17,355 | *Mage Fire | n/a (Sim incomplete) |
Link (Includes GITHUB Gear Sim links for each class/phase.)
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“Y’all” is a strong word. There’s actually a number of various opinions held here on the spectrum between “Fury are unplayable and need a significant buff” and “Warriors deserve to suffer, suck it up”.
It’s suits people’s argument to push it as being about only those two extremes, but it really isn’t.
For instance, my own view is that Warriors are doing well enough at the top end of the spectrum but a QoL buff and bug fixes would bring the middle up closer to the average of other classes.
Thanks, interesting data. Ret is going to be an interesting case, as they may even do better than this - depending on how trinket interactions are implemented.
Of note, the creator of the datasheet also said:
“This sheet is not a substitute for a DPS rankings tier list.
We were gonna do Shadowmourne math, and some TAJ stuff for Retribution, but what’s the point? We can’t confirm any of this stuff until the PTR anyway, so screw it. In the meantime maybe we will figure something out. Until then, wait for real data.
When the PTR lands, I’ll make a new document and we’ll do Shadowmourne only.”
TLDR - take it with a grain of salt.
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1st off: state of balancing in classic and tbc has no bearing or impact on the state of the game now so it should never be brought up, if you didn’t like it then you shouldn’t have played it.
2nd: prot pally was the bis tank the entirety of the game besides ferals. You obviously didn’t play tbc.
the player base does not care about all the numbers you posted above because the numbers you posted only pertain to the top 10, such a waste of time for you to type out all that information. And you just defended frost mage??? No one should ever take you seriously not even time to take your messages.
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Interesting how much spriest goes up.
Obviously it’s not factual but still cool to look at.
Even that data above, game is unbalanced, why is the mage doing 3k more dps than the dk. Why would you ever bring an unholy?
I don’t know that I trust those sims, but it shows a 15% variance which is exceptional. Stop thinking of the game as black and white.
The problem, from the very start, is that either you are not a very good warrior, or the people you play with aren’t very good. If the latter, find better people to play with. Trust me, it’ll save your sanity, even if warriors are popping off in deeps.
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You do know 99% of raids don’t think that way right?
I was obviously referring to vanilla, feral was top tank in TBC by speed clears, but pally and warrior were close behind, it was fairly balanced, nothing like the domination of warriors in vanilla.
The top 10% actually shows what a spec is capable of, and including all is skewed data. You mentioned having 5300gs and not getting taken in raids, don’t think the bottom 90% have 5300gs, and quite frankly, casual guilds don’t care what you are playing, you are clearly talking about top guilds looking to min-max their raid comp.
And how is showing ret is below frost mage defending frost mage? It’s showing that rets really weren’t buffed like people are claiming. You are saying you’re performing worse than ret, and that simply isn’t true.
We expected feral to perform how it is now, more or less. Similarly, I’m for fixing issues in the game, ie munching, DRW, etc, or maybe even tier buffs, but a mechanical buff doesn’t bode well for later phases. That said, if DRW is “fixed”, fury will likely need some sort of buff or Shadowmourne won’t be going to fury anyway.
You mean this:
Where it is still out performing several specs and if you look at the difference between most dps above there is not a huge difference. Also as you well know fury will continue to get stronger throughout this expansion. You just refuse to see anything due to your confirmation basis.