Why werent you complaining about warriors being stacked in vanilla?
I didn’t play vanilla? No one actually played that right?
You know they weren’t doing balance changes u til two months ago right? So why complain in vanillla!
More people played in Vanilla or Classic Vanilla than you think.
I didn’t play original, but I did play classic, and warrior scaling was obscene, whereas Ret paladins (along with other specs) were crushed under the weight of Kalgan’s ego.
The point is, the base game and the early expansions had a bazooka for a nail approach to balance. Warriors were on top for Vanilla, and now they are feeling the pendulum swing the other way in Wrath.
It’s not fair, but it is what it is.
Hopefully you guys get buffed, but the fact that many of you said nothing in Vanilla for us is telling.
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Lol warriors were stacked in classic and late tbc. Didnt see you complaining then…
Two things:
1.) What is stoack?
To Sarahbeth
2.) While a case could be made for TBC, there is no way in hell you can ever convince me that warrior scaling in Vanilla wasn’t busted. They were pretty much 95% of all tanks (barring the occassional bear/paladin), and you always gave the Thunderfury sword to them, not to paladins.
As for damage? They pretty much took all the plate DPS gear. You stacked em.
We didn’t plead for them in Vanilla because they were already on the top. What are you talking about?
Because it’s only a problem when others do it duh. Warriors are allowed to be on top, but never in bottom
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you are awesome
I assumed they mean “Stacked”?
Stoic?
Story jacked?
Stomach?
Stork?
Warriors were storks in Classic?
You can’t.
If you buff using information that includes the lower performing players it’s only going to make the top players blow the lid off the charts.
You buff a 4k fury to 6k and now the player that was doing 10k is pulling 17.
If any balancing is to be done it should be around like the 70% range. Let the people that perform above or below that end up where they end up.
If you try to balance the people parsing 4s, the ones parsing 94s, and everyone in between you’re never going to get it right.
Would be the worst job in the company. I’d walk out if given a job that can’t be done.
I’m not exactly sure how many times I have to say I did not play vanilla. However, I am aware that class balancing was at its absolute worst. The fact that any of you continued to play it speaks volumes about your addiction to the game because you still played it despite it being so bad.
The constant rhetoric that no one can complain now, because when we were good, we didn’t complain that we were good makes absolutely no sense. It is on the player that wants change to speak up for change . In the history of wow I would bet a Lotta money that no one went on the forums and actually advocated that they needed a nerve because their damage was so tremendous in a pve setting.
Where we’re at now in the game, is an improvement from both TBC it definitely vanilla. However, if that doesn’t mean that it’s good.
In the current state of the game you got talent specializations that are almost untouched by the player base. The overall damage of ret paladin and below compared to the top is actually terrible, it is thousands of DPS difference, we’re talking over 30% in most cases.
When I bring up to the player base that this is an obvious problem, I am met with a few different arguments that are quite dumb. The most common one is that a hybrid specialization should receive some sort of penalty because their other specializations or a different role altogether.
Dude, I’m not sure if anyone here knows how this works, but when you SPEC feral, you’re not healing. You’re not going to think, oh, we might wipe here, unless I throw out some heels… No. No. You’re literally there to only do damage and that’s it, so why in the world would their damage be overall lowered because they have this imaginary ability to heal. Because next time your healer dies on alg, pop out and use your entire mana bar to heal him for 10k… lol.
This applies to all the hybrids as well
Yeah but I’m not asking for a power buff dude…
Everything on these forums assumes you want the Devs to chuckya a freebie. That’s not my angle. I simply want to understand the data and have people discuss the data accurately.
It’s hard to believe I know but some of us just want to discuss and understand the facts.
I work in a stem field and coming from that I can’t see why this community ignores averages completely and makes sweeping dogmatic assessments on outliers.
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There’s also a myriad of different ways that the numbers can be looked at, analyzed, interpreted, etc.
Some class’s outliers are spiked much higher than others. Class and spec play rates aren’t equal (the higher skill players overwhelmingly will pick a spec with a 10% theoretical gain in DPS, making the gap appear much larger due to both a performance and skill gap between those left playing it). Where the average performance is shifts by ilvl at times, and Ulduar makes it rather challenging for players to get to the higher ilvl brackets if they aren’t in a top tier guild. Overall Ulduar data has a lot of weird mechanic bosses that highly favor casters.
The actual data we are looking at is a mess, and even then, the actual difference between performance isn’t particularly large right now when all things are equal.
The way people build raid groups these days makes the real balance issues in the game look far worse than they actually are.
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there is also the factor that the data might be compromised by not calculating certain events, like the anti padding rules of WCL.
Its weird, just because padding can happen and make the top 1% logs less accurate, we lose accuracy overall.
Its just wrong. The numbers get interpreted before they are presented. It should be the other way around.
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Aye, but a lot of people need that analysis done for them because they lack the analysis skills themselves. Unfortunately some of those surface level views still leave some things to be desired when it comes to drawing immediate conclusions.
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This is actually very simple to posit why. People assume that those warriors are just better than the rest but if you break it down by ability ratio warriors 60-70 and above are running the same rotation. The difference in dps is due to the way that high parsing guilds actually run their boss fights, that is, speedrunning them.
The tanks generally wear less mitigation and more threat gear as they have more diverse gear available to them and the healers are more geared. The dps warrior generally doesn’t sunder or shattering throw because overall it is a net dps loss given how fast the bosses die. Most warriors don’t have the option to play like that.
The reason a single fury warrior is taken in these raids is for the aforementioned gear changes. Players (particularly tanks) aren’t stacking as highly for stamina and therefore any health buffs are integral to that style of play. I guarantee if warlocks’ imps did the same health buff they’d just get a warlock to change pet and be done with warriors for good.
I don’t think any other dps is so completely dependent on their raid’s overall dps output for their performance.
Easiest fix for this would be to change heroic strike glyph to apply sunders as the 10 rage on crit becomes weaker as the phases go anyway. You also don’t have the first 5-10 GCDs being used on abilities that are obviously weaker for dps. For fights that pop bloodlust on pull this is especially true.
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the next problem is that parsing at 100 level is rarely an honest endeavour, its mostly cheesed, especially for the top specs, all the warlocks for example are using a situation where the log doesn’t start before thorim hits the ground to corruption him with tricks up, which gives them 15% dmg undetected by the logs, 1 guy is aoeing all the freya lashers, 1 guy is drain souling vezax while the rest of the group afks, you get it
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Doesn’t matter. Good portion of us did. Wanna know why? It’s not because:
False.
Some of us never got to play the original game. The pacing, atmosphere, coherent storyline, and a world that didn’t feel like an usent park is just part of what kept players playing. Poor class balance wasn’t enough to deter the masses.
Blizzard would never have nerfed warriors for a few reasons. 1, it would have caused a huge uproar. 2, it may have been a necessary evil for some guilds to clear 40 Naxx.
And for those of us that DID play Classic and Wrath now, we paid our dues. I’m personally waiting for my T10 bonus so I can turn into a human blending machine.
As for the rest of your post, I tend to agree. Rets make poor tanks as an example. Wish that wasn’t the case, but it is what it is.
Fortunately Warriors came into WoTLK pre-nerfed by implementing the last patch with no consideration for how that would affect their performance in the earlier phases.
Paladins should have been pigeon-holed to a tank/healer binary this expansion and been told to be happy with two S-tier specs. Then none of this nonsense would be even being discussed.
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And this is reason 5237 why no one takes you seriously on these forums Blade.
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