Maybe quit again?
nah ill enjoy the unbalanced game with you dog. all good. keep leveling your retail toon
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NO THIS IS A GAME FROM 2009, GO PLAY DRAGONFLIGHT WHERE THE DEVS ARE DEVELOPING CURRENT CONTENT GAME
WARCRAFT LOG PEOPLE KICK ROCKS this CLASSIC ERA WE DON’T WANT YOU HERE AND WE DON’T WANT BALANCE CHANGES TO A 10 YEAR OLD EXPANSION GO AWAY.
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Feel free to check the last time I earned a achievement on retail, enjoy complaining about the game you are paying for yet are so unhappy about playing it you want it changed.
So does my guild.
WE SUCK! Being the best loser doesn’t make you a winner.
I’d love to do a week with another guild just to see if I’m as bad as I think I am or if the raid group is holding me down.
The healers with the tanks just ahead of them.
Yup. You put the top players on the bottom specs/classes and they’ll still be top players.
That 230 item level warrior doing 6k on ignis will never pull a 99. Even with buffs they’re only going to parse greens and blues.
And non-performance oriented players that are not very good will follow the performance oriented players, so even the bads aren’t playing the “bottom specs”.
I’ll fight them for the right to the buffage.
Bunch of fights I don’t get to use my supposed great utility, only have BS on a 1 min cd, SI/FR on 3 min, and they will nerf us when messing with kitty… plus we get ICC’d for 20% (all tanks do, but we don’t have block or parry).
For being so powerful you always seem to come up short. Let me help. 
So in your opinion people with opinions don’t know what they’re talking about?
Wouldn’t that mean that you don’t know what you’re talking about?
That’s why they should balance the numbers around the 70ish% area. Let the low parsers and high parsers fall where they fall, but the numbers are balanced around a ~C average.
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Not true. Ferals asked for a buff because blizzard chose the iteration of OoC that they felt was accurate for WoTLK. Many Ferals chose the class on the premise that OoC procced off of more things than we got - like FFF - and this resulted in many people assuming Ferals would be stronger but being mistaken because of the significant reduction in procs. Instead of making OoC work on those abilities - which they were provided with documentation that supported the abilities proccing OoC - Blizzard left things as is and Ferals chose another route to make their rotations work: which resulted in bearweaving. Blizzard did not like Bearweaving because it resulted in an egregious amount of threat so they made an aim to gut it and instead of making OoC proc on the things at a ~6% rate they just made it proc 100% on FFF.
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You do realise this is basically just that exact same sentence, but expanded right.
What you wrote sums up pretty much to “Ferals felt they should be top tier dps because that’s what pservers taught them”.
And funnily enough, people did bearweaving on pservers too according to my more sweaty feral friends who actually played them.
The threat issue is bs and had no bearing on anything anywhere outside of really sketchy and bad guilds/pugs. If you have threat issues outside of Vezax or Hodir then your tanks aren’t playing their specs correctly, bearweaving or not.
Incorrect. There is documentation from waybackmachine that was given to Blizzard on the beta forums. Blizzards response was effectively "Ya we see that but we consulted with some random person who worked on WoTLK originally and we don’t think it should work that way.
I mean I had the threat issues. It wasn’t a major thing but because our prot paladin would just toss salv onto me, but depending on what gearing the tank needed for a fight I would absolutely tear off of him. Vezax is just the biggest issue thats presented for this. It’s also likely with t9 and t10 the issue would become even worse because of how those tier sets interact with lacerate specifically.
Never played Pservers so I wouldn’t know the accuracy of this, just that during WoTLK beta people started shilling bearweaving when our dps was looking rather lower than expected.
But my question to you is this then. This scenario is similar to the powershifting debacle at the start of TBC where Blizzard broke powershifting and ferals resorted to trolls blood elixirs so they could still do the rotation. If Blizzard chose to keep that change in and then buffed Ferals would you have complained about Ferals receiving that buff? Blizzard even said they didn’t want Ferals doing the powershifting but went back and fixed powershifting later because of the degenerate nonsense we got up to. Would you say it’s just because of what people believed from Pservers even though that’s how Feral worked in TBC originally and there’s documentation for it? Would you have an issue if Blizzard did the ideal fix and allowed the abilities they broke from proccing OoC to do so even if Feral still did s-tier dps? This fix was less work for Blizzard even though it wasn’t the asked for solution. Or do you specifically have an issue with Ferals doing high dps. I mean hell, even going into the Ulduar patch Blizzard made it so maul no longer procced OoC. The specific argument that private servers made people believe Ferals should do more with OoC is just a moot point because Blizzard hasn’t even been consistent in WoTLK classic on how it works.
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The issue is simple, even on retail which boasts a much closer dps spread between classes and specs, specs with high utility and alternate roles are more often than not considered viable at much lower dps tresholds due to the utility they bring. And that’s the version of the game where many “big” and “class defining” abilities in Classic understanding are shared between several specs.
Feral druids competing with Assassination Rogues breaks the raid comp balance, favoring Druids over comparable but less utility focused DPS. Similar issue but on a much smaller scale is why capable Shadow Priests are only slightly salty that their spec isn’t performing as well as for example Affliction Warlocks. It is also why even if Retribution did tank tier dps you would always bring one anyway just because an additional Hand of Sacrifice, Divine Sacrifice, Hand of Salvation and their raid buffs are THAT insanely strong.
That is the raid comp angle. Next angle is very simple - there are specs that provide MUCH less than a Feral Druid and aren’t for some reason allowed to compete with classes that have only dps specs. Warriors being the biggest whiner and possibly one of the better examples, but this also affects Hunters heavily as both Survival and Marksmanship do not actually bring that much utility while not being allowed to come close to Feral throughput.
These are the main issues with this change. If the change was properly tuned and tested before deployment and didn’t result in gains which were, according to the dev team themselves, greater than expected it wouldn’t even start causing these issues.
My opinion in general on this is that Blizzard should roll back ALL changes to Feral and properly test the FFF change, and tune it accordingly, possibly involving a Glyph.
For me, the moment they heavily dropped the ball is not the buff itself but their idiotic reactionary nerf to it, as it clearly shows they don’t test anything and were simply very lucky with the way they “fixed” Retribution Paladins.
Retail last I remembered balanced specs around their ability to aoe, cleave and single target. WW is amazing aoe, but absolute trash single target for example. If this was the goal of balancing in WoTLK I would support it. Unfortunately there’s specs like aff who are king of cleave, aoe and single target. An irrelevant point.
What insane utility does feral bring exactly? They have 5% crit, bleed debuff, innervate and rebirth. On a similar note Aff which is able to do well in ST, cleave and AoE has 5% crit debuff, shadows embrace, healthstones, soulstones and has execute damage.
Warrior and a lesser degree hunters have a justifiable gripe with the dps being much lower being on the ArP nerf patch. I have absolutely no issue with blizzard giving them a once over. Survival though is a very strong dps spec atm. I don’t know why you brought them up but they do extremely well in cleave, aoe and ST. Something Feral could not also claim to do.
I agree that the Feral buff was very poorly implemented and the nerf was ridiculous, but I think your specific arguments against feral are weak. I think the change should be reverted even if I am reaping benefits from it, but that’s also on the premise that Blizzard actually does the work to make OoC work properly. The way things were is not the way to go about it because OoC was extremely sparse. The way things are is also not the way to go about it because the complexity of the rotation is lost when energy is no longer a deciding factor. Feral should not be able to do competitive cleave, and top tier aoe and single target. I was bought on the idea of Feral doing consistent single target dps with mediocre aoe and bad cleave. The buff does not meet that expectation. Though in reality I was going to play Feral regardless.
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Retail last I remembered balanced specs around their ability to aoe, cleave and single target. WW is amazing aoe, but absolute trash single target for example. If this was the goal of balancing in WoTLK I would support it. Unfortunately there’s specs like aff who are king of cleave, aoe and single target. An irrelevant point.
Every spec can do all of those to a certain extent, only some classes bring raid buffs/debuffs and utility. It is very much relevant still.
What insane utility does feral bring exactly? They have 5% crit, bleed debuff, innervate and rebirth. On a similar note Aff which is able to do well in ST, cleave and AoE has 5% crit debuff, shadows embrace, healthstones, soulstones and has execute damage.
Shadows Embrace in a raid setting does next to nothing except for MAYBE Freya if you decide to zerg her down. It only realistically affects the Warlock’s dps throughput, that’s the extent of “utility” it brings. The crit debuff is shared with Demonology (a more utility centric spec which performs worse than Affliction) and Fire, however Fire has to sacrifice a bit of dps to keep it up. Healthstones are useful and that’s that, same as Soulstones which don’t allow in-fight ressing of someone. Warlocks (and DK’s and Warriors) also can’t realistically salvage a terrible pull by tanking most bosses for the remainder of the fight should your raid lose the tank and have no recovery. Feral can on most hard mode fights with the exception of Thorim, Vezax, Steelbreaker and Algalon obviously due to mechanics or the tank damage. But Freya, Mimiron, Hodir? Perfectly feasible although I see no scenario in which you randomly lose a tank on Hodir with no recovery.
Comparing Warlocks, a purely DPS class with next to no notable utility to Feral is at best questionable.
Feral simply doesn’t need the dps close to Assassination Rogues to justify it’s raid spot as it brings raid buffs/debuffs which have no alternative source (because Arms isn’t a viable spec) along with the usual Druid major utility such as mentioned Innervate or Rebirth.
Warrior and a lesser degree hunters have a justifiable gripe with the dps being much lower being on the ArP nerf patch. I have absolutely no issue with blizzard giving them a once over. Survival though is a very strong dps spec atm. I don’t know why you brought them up but they do extremely well in cleave, aoe and ST. Something Feral could not also claim to do.
Hunters perform worse than Feral in single target fights AND AOE fights right now due to the OOC change. Warriors have no viable spec that brings out their raid debuff utility and have to sacrifice dps to apply their other debuff.
Until specs with lower utility are brought higher up the totem pole, specs with actual major utility such as Feral, Balance and Retribution shouldn’t be anywhere outside of the middle of the pack.
And all that is not even touching the scaling issues the change brought in, which are actually substantial as there is absolutely no reason why an utility spec should beat every other dps spec in the final phase by even a moderate margin.
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100% true, ferals have been justifying their buff in the way I stipulated ever since it was implemented. Your inactivity on the forums doesn’t sway me.
don’t be a logs meta slave , there is your solution
Says the death knight.
are you being class racist ?
Sounds like you need to step it up
When I’m playing above average and I can be outdpsed by a severely below average dps of a recently buffed class, something is wrong in the state of WoTLK.
Yo OP, do you play the game? Because listing blood dps is a bit laughable…Is that 5300 gs all purchased with a credit card?
If you’re accusing him of RMT, come right out and say it.