Because all you need to do to fix the “left behind” problem is run mythic+ instances. Sure you won’t be getting invites into 10+ runs but even something like me who runs one, maybe two a week I still can find a 7-9 without too much trouble.
I’ve offered to help more than one person here get a key done over the past two expansions. In fact, I offered to help you just the other day.
But ultimately, no, random strangers don’t care about other strangers m+ group invites.
Any bit of advice on how players can push their io or make their own groups is rebuffed with “that’s too hard”, “that takes too long” or “I’m not a leader”.
And frankly, it gets tiring hearing people make excuses for why they can’t, while making demands from those who can.
At this point, I’m pretty convinced that some won’t be happy until they’re accepted into any group they sign up for.
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Yes I’m aware. And if I ever muster the will to log back onto WoW, I might take you up on that offer. But what then? My friends have all stopped inviting me and my guild runs them when I am unable to. As far as the former goes, that pretty much says it all.
I’ve posted on the Mythic Plus Friends discord trying to find a good, regular group of friends to run and progress them together, but I never got a single bite. And I can’t bring myself to blind pug them. I need the security of a regular group who won’t rage at mistakes.
Just not sure what to do anymore.
Im saying that in general, it doesnt seem to matter whom you talk to about it, so long as they support RIO, they will always come up with a reason as to why it is the best thing since sliced bread, and its not.
No one is arguing that though. Anywhere. The majority of people here are readily admitting it has it’s potential issues, but those far out weigh the alternative.
On one side, the arguments are that the addon is literally destroying the game and creating hordes of elitist players. To the players who don’t like it, they almost always have commonalities in their overall progression in keys. A lot of these players are the most vocal on the forums.
The same players continue to say it’s a form of gatekeeping while ignoring every other form of content in this game. You at least responded, but most don’t. Even bringing up the topic just gets players labeled as elitist. It’s ridiculous.
I just don’t understand a lot of these complaints as everyone of them is centered around those players looking for groups rather then hosting their own content. Or looking for guilds. Or communities. LFG for M+ has long since been defined by tools like RIO.
In the end, the arguments should be centered around the frustration of what M+ has done to the game relative to their play experience. For me, it’s been great, but I totally accept that it’s been detrimental to the experience for others.
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Raider io is not the problem, Blizzard making everything into a race or esport is THE problem.
Why does m+ need to be timed again?
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Because otherwise it would be really boring waiting to lust every pack.
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Where is the challenge if it’s not timed? It being timed is what makes it enjoyable. The pressure of failure is the compelling and exciting part.
If it wasn’t time, then key progression overall would be pretty uneventful.
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Well, and another fact that people dont want to admit, is that community that plays, isnt as big as people think it is. This game has been losing subscribers for a long time, its at its all time low.
What doesnt help, is that now more than ever, the gear from M+ caches is more saught after because its better than raid gear and many times easier to acquire, just behind a 1 week timer, and only one piece. But witht he corruption lottery going on, that one piece can mean the bottom of the charts, to the top. (Which is stupi dbut thats the case).
So, more people are trying to get them done, and running into being declined a lot.
Do I think it was designed as a gate? No, but, people are turning it into that sadly.
A person’s experience should be a gate though.
If I were to try to join a top end raiding guild I would be (Rightly) turned down because of a lack of experience. No one bats an eye.
If I were to try and pair up for some top tier rated pvp I would be (Rightly) declined because of lack of experience. No one bats am eye.
Why should this be any different for keys?
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each and every one of those people can list a key.
Players using raider.io are not gating the m+ system. They’re gating their personal groups. The literal only thing stopping the declinees from listing their own key is their own excuses why they can’t.
And as a seriously introverted (irl) person who hates dealing with strangers, I get that. But if a person isn’t willing to come out of their comfort zone and make a group, the responsibility for their game doesn’t rest on random stranger’s shoulders.
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When enough of them do it, it gates the system.
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Open your bags. Do you have a key?
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it 100% absolutely does not.
I have no power to stop anyone from getting a key and listing it.
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There’s no guarantee that the key will be a pleasant experience when you blindly list and pug, or even that will take off if you’re not a tank.
ok, and? there’s no guarantee of that for the guy who listed his key in LFG either.
no one gets that guarantee when they’re pugging.
if you want that guarantee, you need to run with friends.
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That’s just the kind of thing that stops me from throwing up a key on the group finder, is all. Not everyone is that brave to blindly pug.
You are correct that it’s better to run with friends. I just wish I had some reliable ones.
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The problem with all of this is it’s just statistically not true.
The fact of the matter is that if you’re used to doing something like +8’s, then you can basically ignore most mechanics, take a poor path through the dungeon, have a few wipes, and still time it. Statistically, there is no evidence you’re any good, is what i’m saying. You MIGHT be, but it’s less likely, and there’s no evidence for it that a stranger can see.
Compare that to the +1500 example you used and there’s quite a bit of evidence that they’re probably avoiding standing in most of the bad stuff, probably have a decent idea of paths and can probably do decent dps.
That’s literally all RIO is.
Again, i’m not sure where this is coming from and I doubt anyone is going to argue against that. Its… a very old game. The fact it has lasted this long has been amazing for many of us. It’s been ‘dying’ since wrath in a lot of ways. That said, it’s still a massive community. If anything, the game has just been brought down the level of many of it’s rivals.
WoW has been ahead on so many levels that it’s likely stifled the MMO industry on the whole. Every other MMO getting announced as the WoW killer for a time, only for all of them to fall flat. I do find it amusing there was a period of years where a number of games were touted as just that, then all of them amounted to nothing.
Disagree that it’s better. Complimentary, sure. Some pieces might be BIS, but generally speaking, a Mythic raider is still going to out gear the majority of players who only focus on M+. Initially, M+ is very rewarding if you just spam keys to get 455-465 gear. You eventually hit a wall though where what matters most is itemization and for now, corruption. That’s where raiding starts to take the edge and push well past M+.
Players who obviously do both will be the best regardless. To that, players who do all 3 forms of content for gear (pvp, m+, raiding) will be the most well positioned.
For me, I wish M+ and raiding, and even pvp, weren’t competing for ways to gear. I wish there was some core pieces that each were vying for. I think the tokens in the past really supported that. If there were a common currency awarded from each, it would help alleviate the pressure to do one or the other.
In the end, none of those paths for gear benefit when players feel forced to do them. M+ is worse off for PvP players feeling they HAVE to do M+ for gear. To that, when PvE players felt forced to do PvP, PvP wasn’t better because of it.
I think each being attractive on it’s own is best for everyone. Maybe one might have a BIS piece here are there, but if they all rewarded something in the same path, it would be an improvement overall.
Consider this. If there was only ONE chest for gear each week. If you did pvp, M+, or killed a raid boss, you were guranteed a piece. As is, there is reason todo all forms of content to push as fast as you can. This is wearing players out. I would much rather raiders and pvp players not feeling compelled or forced… and that’s what we have now.
This is just a tough one. A lot of it is in the perception of the player and their personal experience. I know a great many players feel like content being accessible to everyone has made the end ‘reward’ of doing that content less… lucrative. That end game content is no longer special in a lot of ways. Those ‘gates’ are a carrot and give players reason to improve and work harder.
I don’t see it as a gate I guess. It’s just the nature of any game or anything we want to earn in life.
For sure. This is true of everything we do in wow in a group setting. For players like myself, I’m willing to deal with the frustration, the trolls, the d bags, the elitist, you name it, to host content. Last night we timed a +16 Siege with under a minute and it felt great. It was by far not the hardest thing I have done, but a couple mistakes really had us cutting it close. By the end, everyone was pretty happy and it was a nice feeling. THAT is the reward to me. It’s nice to have that shared experience with people.
I have voiced my frustrations elsewhere with people leaving keys early or just trolling the groups I have made. It happens. It doesn’t stop me though. Def puts a damper on my experience and I would love to mitigate it more if possible, but I just like to key my eye on the reward and just assume that that stuff happens.
Because it’s the most elegant way of actually making it a progression style system.
You can make a dungeon hard, but if all it is is hard, then people are still going to easily clear it because they’ll use cheese strategies like Rogue shroud or Bloodlust to skip or bruteforce every possible encounter. Dungeons are not fundamentally like raids, where wiping on a boss will essentially set you back to square one.
The timer in M+ isn’t designed to be a race. It’s meant to be a cheese check. It’s no different than a 10 minute enrage on a boss that will normally take 6-7 minutes to kill. It exists purely to dissuade people from using ridiculous strategies like 12 tanks and 8 healers on a Mythic boss, to avoid dying to any mechanic.
If you have appropriate gear, skill and experience, and execute the dungeon correctly (with some room for error), you’ll have no issues making that dungeons timer. M+ is no Challenge Modes in that regard.
Though naturally the timer does lend itself to making speedruns and races popular. But that’s a byproduct of the system, not the point itself.
That’s what experience is ya doofus.
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