No, a tell tale sign would be a timed 15 but no keys of lower levels, like 13s, 12s, etc. I mean are you just trying to argue at this point or are you not reading the thread? Because the answer has been established almost as much as the question.
Because safer bets then you pop up. I’m a 2k last season and I still got declined for keys I’ve already timed multiple times below my highest during s3. Or group comp, or a friend popped up, or maybe they thought my name was dumb. And spotting carries isn’t a perfect thing, maybe the guy had enough gold to buy carries on every key in 11/12/13 range. Not much you can do there, but no tool is perfect anyways.
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Idk both my s3 and s4 score (both visible via the addon atm) overqualify me for 10s and I still get declined. Groups full life goes on.
Feel like there’s a significant lack of awareness about just how many ppl apply to keys and how many of them might be more geared/more experienced.
Rogues are special. Everyone is probably happy about not needing them for skips now so their probably screwing around with other comps. It’s fun to not always have a rogue in the group
Id look at multiple timed keys of the same level as slightly suspiscious as well is my point.
Because when 20+ DPS apply, only the top 3 can get chosen.
The rest have to get declined, even if they’re qualified for the dungeon.
If you’re really suspicious someone bought carries, simply loot at who they did the dungeon with. That’s recorded as well.
If someone of mediocre/limited experience in previous season seems to exclusively play with 3k+ IO, Famed Slayer players who’ve done hundreds of keys, that’s a little suspicious.
But it all comes down to the fact that no system we’ve ever had actually records skill, and none probably will. The best we got is experience, and experience correlating with skill is a good enough rule of thumb for pugging.
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Dinged 120 right after 8.3 dropped, also was a returned player from MoP… that’s 2 and half expansions behind and a lot of catching up to do. I literally face rolled Mythic games without even knowing anything about the dungeon. Just going in blind.
Now I’ll admit I have since done some basic research on the few (3) +2 mythics I’ve done however I had a key for two of them and form those groups. All went very smooth no issues and the timer had loads of time.
Each win resulted in a upgraded +5 key…
That’s where I hit the brakes. If mythic is face roll, +2 is not noticeably harder either just has a timer then +5 should provide a challenge. So for now I’ll focus on gearing up and doing Visions. By the end of this week I hope to smash a +2 the take that upgraded +5 and form a group.
I won’t be using RaiderIO because it’s not my cup of tea. So when I form I will look for ilevel close to my own and a good attitude and we can work through it together. If we fail we fail and I won’t lose sleep.
I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say relative to my comment. No arguments were shut down with any form of logic. First, it wasn’t a this or that scenario. All the items you listed (Gs, Ilvl, IO) are a cumulative piece of inviting people now. In the past, it was just ilvl as that was all we had outside of some achievements. Ilvl itself didn’t mean much at times, but it was a place to start.
I Have run 100’s of keys over the course of this expansion and 1,000’s since M+ was introduced across all my toons. The vast majority if keys I do are also my own. In respect to building groups, the people that pay for carries represents an insignificant percentage of the whole.
To that, as I said as well, players who pay for keys typically have irregular key completion history. As in, they might go from doing a +3 and +4 keys right to +15. In those cases, I typically pass on those people, unless they have raid logs. Not totally uncommon for people who mostly raid to have some odd keys done.
I’m honestly not sure what you mean here either. Where is this argument being made? No one is saying it’s flawless and that wasn’t the point discussion anyways.
The people who continue to complain about gatekeeping are the ones who are also unwilling to host the very content they are denied. If you understood the effort and time that went into hosting content, you might grasp the need for tools like this. No one is stopping any of these players saying its gatekeeping from building their own groups, communities, or guilds to do content the way they prefer.
It’s not gatekeeping.
That is such a small amount of the whole though. In all the keys I have done, I can’t even recall an instance of that being an issue. To that, for people that pay for carries, they always have very odd completion histories to begin with. A couple for +4 or +5 keys then instantly +15 or higher.
If people are only inviting on the basis of score… then sure, they might fall victim to that, but that’s on them.
yes/no. As I noted above, it’s typically easy to pick up because the players key history is all over the place. As in, there might be large gaps in the content they are doing. They may have 0 history then instantly have +15s or higher done. In some cases, players in raiding guilds might have this issue as they may only run with guildies. In that case, it might be worth checking out logs to see how competent they are.
It can. It still takes effort on the person forming the group though to look at the players history. It’s not 100%, but in the majority if cases it’s easy to see.
UR is one of the best keys possible. =/
That isn’t a shot at you, but it really is one of the best keys to get outside of freehold.
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If you don’t like raider IO, you want to hide your inexperience. The only reason to hide your inexperience is to get carried by a group.
This really should be added to the banned topic lists at this point. Everybody wants to feel special.
But that is ALL that people do, which is the problem.
That’s nonsense and you know it.
I don’t see anyone on here trying to hide the inspect function or shutting down the armory. However, loads of people wanted just that to happen back when gearscore was the enemy.
It’s always the same. People want to hide and be carried, OR they are delusional enough to think that they are so special that they can execute without having the pertinent experience.
The real life equivalent would be applying for a senior level job after reading about it on Wikipedia. You have to put in the work to get the experience, and the experience is the biggest factor in the success of a run.
To posture as if the ability to see what people have done is somehow responsible for not getting into groups (and not their own inexperience being displayed) is nonsense.
And you all know it.
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Say it with me now:
NO.
IT.
DOES.
NOT.
It shows what you’ve done, not whether you are GOOD or not.
Again, a thumbless pleb could get dragged through a bunch of stuff by 4 buddies and end up with a better score than a normal player.
IO fails to show whether people are good, which is the only thing people use IO to discern.
sees player request group
Checks IO
“This player has done a lot of stuff”
invite
player dies to mechanics left and right
key fails
Why did this scenario happen?
Because people do THIS every single time. IO doesn’t need to exist, because it doesn’t even do the thing people use it to discover.
Using the excuse “just because everyone uses it wrong isn’t OUR fault” is nonsense, because, yes it is.
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You clearly are struggling with the definition of experience, which no one claimed equaled skill.
experience [ ik-speer-ee-uhns ]SHOW IPA
noun
a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something
So. Experience =/= skill
But, both are important to the success of a m+ dungeon.
We don’t have a quick way to check someone’s skill from lfg sign ups, but we do have a way to check their experience.
I’ll take what checks I can, I know they’re not 100% accurate, but some experience check is better than none. You, however, are free to list your own groups and skip this checks.
And is that gatekeeping? Sure is, from my groups. I’m 100% ok with being a gatekeeper to 5 man groups I’ve set up.
But claiming it’s gatekeeping the entire m+ system, As GD likes to do, is false. I am not stopping you from getting a key and making your own group, just like I did.
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Basically, “If its not one thing, its another”.
What are you going off on? Holy.
That is exactly what it shows. It’s not a measurement of how you did. It simply showing your experience with the content. That is EXACTLY what it does.
Everyone understands that. The same is true for almost EVERYTHING in life. Your resumee? Your degree? All of it. But like RIO, it’s just a place to start. It gives some level of confidence. That’s why people get hired and fired all the time.
It does though. As someone who has done 1,000’s of keys, it absolutely assists in creating groups. I can only assume you have almost NO experience creating groups or hosting content and your opinion reflects it.
I responded to a very specific portion of a comment you were discussing. You then some how extrapolated that into me… changing the argument. I was simply adding an additional piece to the discussion per the development of the ongoing conversation.
Personally I don’t really have an issue with “io”. It is a tool that tries to allow others to make an educated decision based upon your prior experience in mythic+ content. And this is form a dude who hasn’t hit over 700 rating in ANY season. Yet I still manage to find a group each week for my chest.
this is why we’re trying to educate the community rather than be “GRRRR AAARGGHHH YARRGGGG, Raider IO is bad” The sad part is people like you give it a bad rep when all it does is help people who needs to pug their key an inform decision on who to take and what risk they have when taking said people
It just sucks for the people getting left behind, that’s all. And no one seems to care.
and why should they care? You’re a stranger bud. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Instead of complaining about getting left behind. Learn, get better and catch up rather than be sorry for yourself