Understanding Raider IO

[Zaili-wyrmrest-accord]

It is highly relevant.

You missed my point COMPLETELY there, but sure.

[Ukhu-lightninghoof (Ukhu)]

Why do you keep advertising Raider io in the forum?

[Jhannae-bronzebeard (Jhannae)]

I was just Casual when I learned of raider io.

Raider io scores you on each Mythic dungeons you do. The higher the key you completed, the higher score you get. Even if you fail on the timer, it gives you a score.

Since high raider io score is the goal, I have to score high.

There’s 12 dungeons on raider io. 2 are from Mechagon… Junkyard and Workshop.

Each dungeon gives you score. If you didnt do a single run on a particular dungeon, your score for that dungeon is ZERO.

To get you a decent raider io score, you have to score on each dungeon. What I did was to run all the dungeons to the highest difficulty that I can do. I did +7/+6 mostly. But there were occassions I get a bad group making me fail on a timer. But it is still ok as long as I complete the dungeon so that I could score with something other than zero.

There are dungeons where I cant get invited on +7 or +6. So what I did is to do a lower key on those dungeons… just to get a score.

Now, I am finished getting scores on each dungeon.

My dungeons difficulty range from +4 to +7… my total score now is 700.

This 700 score would be my way on getting invited to get 800 score. And when I get 800, it would be my way to get invited to get 900. I could get 1000 and maybe 1500 someday. I progress from scratch.

To be not frustrated with raider io, start with the low score and climb your way up. Casual or Veteran, you need to climb step by step.

Dont feel entitled that you would be chosen to be invited to the highend high keys. You have to prove it. Start with low score.

[Tywín-illidan]

@Addr-tichondrius

Every week, or really everyday, a new thread pops up for Raider IO and there is always a good bit of misinformation spread about the tool. Not that the information is intended to always be malicious, but it’s problematic in how the tool works and what it means for the game and people who use it.

First, all of the information the addon and website uses are available from Blizzard’s own API or can be scraped from the Mythic+ Leaderboard on Wow’s website. Some of that information can even be scraped from a player’s armory. A lot of people seem to think it requires logging or some other input from the player’s. It doesn’t.

This is a pretty important piece of the discussion as many disgruntled players seem to want to place blame on the addon and the information it provides. If you disagree with the addon, that’s fine, but your concerns should be directed to Blizzard and what information they supply. Generally speaking though, the data provided by the API are essential to a lot of players and outside contributors to continue to make addons and websites that supplement the games design. So if you don’t like the addon, the core of what you really don’t like is the leaderboard and the progress/achievements displayed in the armory.

A lot of people seem to feel like removing this tool will alleviate issues of getting invites to groups. To that, people think an underlying elitist culture has been built up around it. All valid arguments, but for players like myself, the tool is invaluable at quickly making decision when forming groups. I predominantly pug and ease of access to information is a massive time saver.

Before raider io… I was using wow progress. Before that, armory. Before that I was inspecting players individually.

This can take a great deal of time and actually makes creating groups much harder. I spend more time looking up people then actually enjoying the content. As is, it still can take 30 minutes or more to put some groups together. I try to be respectful of player’s time, but players also want to complete the key as well. It’s always a trade off. So any tool that makes this process more efficient, the better.

The elitist culture… exists in every part of the game. Be it raiding, pvp, etc. No form of content is immune to it. There are good, friendly players in all those forms of content as well. For as much pugging as I do, generally speaking, the experience is positive. I still have my issues with people dropping keys or being arrogant or entitled, but that’s just the nature of any content that has some level of competition to it.

As far as the score goes, it’s mostly arbitrary and IS NOT the end all be all. Typically, seeing the score relative to the players experience in the specific dungeon and ilvl is what I’ll be looking for. It’s a culmination of everything. For harder keys, I might even look at logs if it’s applicable. As I don’t raid, I don’t hold this against players, but every bit helps.

To those player’s frustrated that the addon and website exclude them from doing content, this is honestly confusing to me. Do you have the same feeling towards mythic raiding guilds or high rated pvp? Do you also feel excluded from that content? M+, like any content, can require a bit of effort in knowing routes, strats, etc. The strat for a +10 might be different for a +15 or a +20. What wasn’t killing you in a +15 is one shotting you in a +18.

While there is a lot more to be said, the constant threads about the addon or about M+ in general are… bewildering. M+ has been the most enjoyable form of content for me and a lot of other players. I’d love to see that content improved and the issues of many players alleviated, but in the end, many of these issues are unfounded and simply understanding how it works would go a long ways.

TLDR: The addon works with data provided by Blizzard. The addon also simplifies practices already set in place. Without it, other tools would be used.

Here you go sir:

Raider IO 101

For those wanting a more comprehensive guide to raider io: The add-on provides VARIOUS metrics that are centered around experience. This does not necessarily tie with skill - parses do a better job of doing that - due to the fact that people can purchase carries. So what experience does the addon provide about your character? 1 - It provides a boss completion for the current AND previous raid; along with the corresponding difficulty. Experience across multiple tiers. 2 - It provides a score…

[Nobel-garona (Nobel)]

Another vapid post about how rio isn’t bad because it lets them gatekeep.

What if I told you we didn’t have to be jerks to eachother and let another third party leech of a website dictate how everyone plays the game?

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

What if I told you we didn’t have to be jerks to eachother and let another third party leech of a website dictate how everyone plays the game?

But here’s the thing, someone deciding not to bring you to a dungeon isn’t them being a jerk.

[Ri-frostmourne]

What if I told you we didn’t have to be jerks to eachother and let another third party leech of a website dictate how everyone plays the game?

It’s easy to say this when you’re on the side that gets the benefit of free carry from it.

[Addr-tichondrius]

Here you go sir:

The goal here, if you read, is different.

Another vapid post about how rio isn’t bad because it lets them gatekeep.

I’d be glad to discuss any point you want to bring up.

What if I told you we didn’t have to be jerks to eachother and let another third party leech of a website dictate how everyone plays the game?

Are players being jerks by not inviting people to their heroic or mythic raids? Are people being jerks if they don’t invite 1800 players to their 2400 group?

This is no different. It’s not gatekeeping and it’s not dictating how people play the game.

Why do you keep advertising Raider io in the forum?

?

I’m not. There are a number of threads and there was a reoccuring piece of incorrect information I was hoping to bring light to.

[Kreivos-hyjal]

I guess it’s all relative. For me, that experience has almost always existed. What we have now is no different then what gear ilvl represents. There used to a 1:1 relationship with the gear you had and your overall experience. That just isn’t the case anymore. So instead of me looking at just ilvl and achievements, it’s a lot of other pieces. It’s… much more complicated.

You are correct, but it just feels…different now.

Back in the day I could be a loser with no friends and doing no group PvE content, but still be able to farm up honor PvP gear to survive in battlegrounds and in the open world, and be able to hold my own. Not so much the case now as the PvP gear we get today is worthless. I’ve turned off warmode for the first time in a while when 8.3 hit because I can’t keep up in gear anymore.

[Draer-frostmourne-861870]

Most people by now know the dungeons. Most people by now also know what the affixes do and how to deal with them.

really? So why do people still die from matron cleave in UR? Why are people still pulling tics? Why are people still dont understand why it’s bad to stand on skele patch in rezan? Why do people not understand why interrupt is importand in mending on adds in shrine. I can go on w/ this list. Alot of these are from experience of doing the dungeon alot that it ingrain to you on what you need to do. Unless of course you’re too dense to understand.

There’s also pull patterns and routing w/ alot of people +7 - +9 seems to fail more often than not

[Addr-tichondrius]

Back in the day I could be a loser with no friends and doing no group PvE content, but still be able to farm up honor PvP gear to survive in battlegrounds and in the open world, and be able to hold my own. Not so much the case now as the PvP gear we get today is worthless. I’ve turned off warmode for the first time in a while when 8.3 hit because I can’t keep up in gear anymore.

Heh, yea. I do understand that and miss that part of the game. While I have enjoyed the addition of M+, my favorite expansions were wrath and MoP and PvP was a big part my wow experience. PvP these days is pretty lack luster and the gear they provide from it is terrible.

I would be happy if M+ wasn’t competing and unique in how it provided gear. Having many different routes to a large inventory of gear would be best. I think that would overall be good for each aspect of the game and not feel so… forced as one route dominates another.

And same. Warmode has been poorly executed. I have always been on PvP servers and always enjoyed the occasional random PvP. Now it feels forced and big groups of the other faction just group up to kill solo players. Not that that didn’t happen in the past, but it was much more limited.

[Axeperson-agamaggan (Axeperson)]

so your solution to making a meaningful solo progression route is to destroy the main reason for most people to aspire to? i get there are people like me to like challenges and do them just for fun but i’m a minority and i know this. if you give the best gear to everyone, the gear becomes meaningless and people stop caring.

you need a carrot for this type of game and you want to put that carrot on a conveyor belt and just inch it to us without any strings attached? that is just absolutely stupid.

[Draer-frostmourne-861870]

This 700 score would be my way on getting invited to get 800 score. And when I get 800, it would be my way to get invited to get 900. I could get 1000 and maybe 1500 someday. I progress from scratch.

pretty much this. Everyone of us “rio elitist” started here. Work our way to a high score and keep climbing up as much as we can. It’s not an instant “I’m pro RIO and get instantly 2k io rating” We did it 1 dungeon at a time during the duration of the season

[Aliandrin-fizzcrank (Aliandrin)]

so your solution to making a meaningful solo progression route is to destroy the main reason for most people to aspire to? i get there are people like me to like challenges and do them just for fun but i’m a minority and i know this. if you give the best gear to everyone, the gear becomes meaningless and people stop caring.

you need a carrot for this type of game and you want to put that carrot on a conveyor belt and just inch it to us without any strings attached? that is just absolutely stupid.

You didn’t read my post.

[Cybilshade-moon-guard]

Honestly darn thing doesnt bother me a bit…

I dont do mythics or mytgic plus or what ever the heck thoes go go speed runners come from. My issues are when i see this super judgmental mentality trickle into heroic and regular runs. And i"ve seen it as low as lvl 15 dungeons. It doesnt belong outside mythic +.

[Addr-tichondrius]

pretty much this. Everyone of us “rio elitist” started here. Work our way to a high score and keep climbing up as much as we can. It’s not an instant “I’m pro RIO and get instantly 2k io rating” We did it 1 dungeon at a time during the duration of the season

Yep. And it really works the same way any raid or pvp ladder works. If you want to be in a guild that is 7/12 mythic, you likely need to be 4/12 or better. If you want to push 2400 in arena, you likely need to have been or currently be 2200-2300.

The nice thing about M+ though is you can circumvent this a bit. If people push their own key and they are actually as good as they think they are, then getting a decent score in a short period is possible.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

As someone who doesn’t eat, sleep and breathe M+

This is hyperbole disguising a pretty gross generalization of m+ players.

In m+, experience matters more than anything else. More than class/spec makeup, more than item level, more than anything. If you don’t know that the casters in pull 12 need to be cc’d and you need to get hit with it to be reminded, that only works up to about +10. After that, you need to know that pre-pull, unless you just overhear the content.

And here’s the rub: while there are people who run dozens of hours of m+ every week, most people don’t. If you can’t get into groups because of your IO, you’re trying to break I to a range where the experience matters.

Anecdotally, I got 1700 and got my all +15 achievements done in season 2 and 3 without dedication much time at all. I didn’t grind AP on my neck, I ran 1-2m+ on the nights I could play, unless it was a raid night, and that was it.

I was smart about picking my groups, targeted my lowest keys most of the time, etc., and I was able to get that score up. It took SOME tome, but I didn’t no life it for weeks like you suggest is required.

There is a vibrant community in m+, and there are a few trolls. If you advertise that you’re new or inexperienced, you’ll find groups who are willing to help you learn.

But what I see most of the time (not saying this describes you) is people with zero experience in a +10 or higher trying to get into a +10 because they’re saved to heroic raids and their raid leader told them its a good idea, and running a +5 or whatever is just pointless if it doesn’t drop good gear. The expectation is to learn on the fly, and while that works to a certain extent in raid encounters, it does not work in m+. They want to target m+ where they get the upgrades, not realizing or understanding the effort required to do even a +10. CE raiders can fail m+ if they don’t know the mechanics from the outset. It’s kind of a running meme in the community.

This season has that group trying to fight to get into +15s, and the distinction is sharper than ever.

All raider IO is is a little UI wrapped around the inspect function. I can see someone’s experience without having to rely on them to tell me the truth that they “know the pulls”, or my favorite entitlement red flag “know my class”.

Is it kind of uncool that the pug community focuses on efficiency over friends-list building? Yeah, maybe. But that’s not raider i.o.’s fault; and only tangentially related to its existence. I can understand being frustrated with the changes in the pugging community, but I get irked when people attribute this behavior to raider IO. If you hate raider IO, you hate transparency, and if you hate transparency, you have something to hide.

The communities are there if you look for them, and pug life is never going to change. don’t get mad at the tool.

[Kreivos-hyjal]

This is hyperbole disguising a pretty gross generalization of m+ players.

It feels like a lot of M+ players do this though. I can barely handle one run a week for a chest, meanwhile I know folks who literally do nothing but run M+ all day.

I have genuinely lost confidence in myself, as my usual M+ friends have stopped asking me to come with them, which says everything. My last couple of weeks have been without a chest. And I am terrified to step into the pug world by myself because I don’t live by a raiderio score. It’s at the point where I’ve just gotten depressed and haven’t even logged onto WoW in general the last few days or so.

[Edgyjojomeme-nathrezim]

One way would be to let everyone earn the best gear… but slower.

you can already get 470 gear solo. All you need is full horrific vision run + 5 masks

Exactly what you’ve been asking for

[Beaupeep-draka (Beaupeep)]

I wont lie and say there hasnt been build up in elitism because of rio. I have no doubt there are more elitists because of rio. That said, the elitism culture existed long before rio and that culture has been the cause of many addons like rio to be created.

Gearscore is the first example i know of where people were requiring higher criteria than what the content would give. So the tools certainly make the elitist group bigger but that group has existed long before these tools have existed.

There is a difference between Gear Score and Raider IO though.

Gear Score was literally “what gear do you have” and that was it.

Raider IO attempts to show whether or not a player is good but it fails miserably.

All Raider IO really does is show what a player has done. Not whether or not they are actually good or not.

A thumbless pleb could get carried through a bunch of content and have a higher IO score than someone who plays the game normally.

IO is not a good indicator of what a player can or can’t do.