I do not actually think silvermoon is really in ruins anymore, the city is just still stuck in BC. And anyways the idea the Kaldorei would do that is sort of hilarious, given the tensions between both branches of elvenkind and how close this idea skirts to indentured servitude.
I canât recall what, if anything, Exploring EK said about the ruined half of Silvermoon, but it wouldnât surprise me to hear it described as a mausoleum still. This despite Rommath rebuilding the other half âovernightâ and the well of power that was its armature up and running again.
Although, whittled down to 10% of their original population and with another couple breaking off every few years to drink blood or fel or void or whatever, maybe the BEs would do well to rent the space out.
Tyrande will likely forsake them, the Alliance are stuck up hypocrites like that, all of them.
The Alliance accepted death knights, theyâll accept Darkfallen.
As to Tyrande, after the events of Shadowlands I think the answer is yes.
I think it would be a case by case basis. Arthas made Death Knights will stay in NorthrendâŠslaking their urge to murder on the undead there. Bolvar made Knights would find it less problematic to return home.
Actually the Alliance can be annoyingly accepting of things.
The big ones being Worgen and Void Elves.
Worgen are essentially walking biohazards with anger issues.
But nothing comes from it because the Worgen Curse has been neutered to oblivion.
Void Elves are infused with the antithesis of The Light.
Theyâre also constantly battling madness and might go berserk at the drop of the hat.
But whatevs.
Itâs actually kind of frustrating.
The initial foil of the Horde and the Alliance required the Alliance to be a bit Holier Than Thou in their opinions.
But the Alliance has been so bland and boring that you can drop a walking bioweapon right next to them, and theyâll hardly sneeze at it.
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I hope so.
Cause similar to the Forsaken, they were rejected due to their actions. Similarly to how the Undead Night Elves betrayed their people by their own free will, the Forsaken also kinda did: as bad as Garithos was, they kicked ALL of humanity out of Lordaeron, and most of them there probably were just actual Lordaeronians. In the Manga, Tarren Mill was still held by humans after the Scourging of Lordaeron, and Southshore was still Lordaeronian even in classicâŠ
This fell apart even in classic sadly, cause the Kaldorei were considered âsavagesâ even by Orc standards in wc3. Due to that it seems more like propaganda the horde tells itself to avoid accountability for itâs actions than any legitimate statement.
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I donât think this is supposed to apply to the forsaken as a whole, though. Theyâre meant to be a group you join when you had nowhere else to go. Most would simply be undead, try (and spectacularly) fail to reconnect with the living, and end up choosing to integrate in the forsaken instead as thatâs supposed to be their shared struggle.
Itâs frustrating that the game seems to drag its heels in committing to this, especially by keeping it so nebulous about whatever happened to the diplomats Sylvanas sent the alliance when the forsaken became established.
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Iâll echo what Sarm said.
As often as Garithos gets brought up in this forum, he has never been brought up in-game as a critique of the Forsaken when examining their relationship with living Humans.
Hilariously, Garithos hardly exists in WoW at all. Or even beyond WC3.
The stance of the game has always been âThe Living rejected themâ. That doesnât absolve the Forsaken of what they did in response. They very much became monstrous, partly because their living kin treated them as such.
Even in this day and age, the game continuously stresses that the âLivingâ donât accept the Forsaken.
The game does a terrible job of expressing it. But itâs clear that itâs a framing the writers want to exist, regardless if it makes sense.
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well they only begrudgingly accepted Death knights. Night elves seem to only tolerate them at best considering when you go to the temple in valsharah they tell you off every single time you go there.
Blizz doesnât really seem to know what it wants to do with the Forsaken frankly. Which is part of why they treated the entire race more and more like an accessory for Sylvanas over the years. Its why it wasnât shocking thatâs what they did with the Horde when they made her Warchief tbh. It also doesnât really help that Blizz doesnât really seem to like focusing on âOld Worldâ content in general, it always about âthe new and shinyâ. With the Forsaken just sticking out as one group in a particularly bad state as a consequence.
For example. With âThe Jailorâs Influenceâ gone, an easy route to dealing with the Forsakenâs issue of population should be the Scourge. With Maldraxxus having given them a clue to how to bring more of writhing, teeming, suffering mass back to âselfâ and âhealthâ. It would actually have allowed the Undead Race to benefit from the land of the dead AND the origins of their affliction, but in a generally âback to their rootsâ non invasive way. Tying into even Vossâs BfA story with Stone. But ⊠Blizz doesnât seem interested.
For the Forsaken NEs? I mean, if theyâre going to stick around with the Forsaken for some reason, at least commit to it. Have Summermoon actually make some waves with the Dark Rangers, and/or even Velonara, and take the stance that âone hand on the wheel is better than no handsâ when it comes to the Horde. The Dark Rangers are in a vulnerable spot, and Velonara at least seems Good Natured for the most part. If SM going to weirdly stick around, at least have something productive come from the nightmare that is her character.
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Blizzard have always been confused with Forsaken sadly. I donât know why its surprising the Alliance didnât accept a race that wiped out a large section of the Lordaeron refugees then made a faction called the Defilers to hunt down the rest.
Such surprise O.O I think the Alliance would openly accept all races, theres no reason the Tauren should remain in the Horde. The opening of them to join would have been when Bainee gave Jaina her brother. idk.
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Personally, I would love for the population issue to just go away.
Itâs a messy thing that the Forsaken really havenât benefitted from much, in my opinion.
This isnât to say I am against new Forsaken. I love the idea of freeing Scourge, as well as taking in lepers and others who willing take on Undeath.
But I would much prefer the Forsakenâs population crisis be counter-balanced by the fact that Forsaken just donât die as easily as normal people.
And get rid of that âbodies breaking down over timeâ business.
Itâs friggin magic.
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The decay issue really is because of what they areâDefective cannon fodder with a healthy dose of physiological warfare. The magic that animated them is far weaker than that that made DKs, so they slowly rot away.
Instead of ignoring it, I would say they should embrace it and seek means to overcome it. For example, I have always thought it make sense for the Forsaken to begin investigating the soul magic the Draenei used to shove dead people into constructs. Then they could get an immortal body that does not decay.
Grom called them âsavage fightersâ to be precise. In other words, they werenât the milquetoast High Elves he was used to in the East.
Them rotting and decaying isnât really a problem.
The problem is the idea that the rot will ultimately make their bodies useless.
Itâs an issue thatâs arisen ever since stuff like Dark Mirror and Before the Storm. This weird insinuation that Undead are dependent on their physiology.
That eventually their arm will rot too much for them to swing a sword.
Before the Storm has a phenomenal example of this wonkiness.
A Forsaken Blacksmith gets a new arm attached.
Heâs dismayed because his new arm isnât as strong as his old arm.
Heâs reminded that, being dead, he canât make the arm stronger cause he canât build muscle mass anymore. So heâs sad.
And that entire scenario is silly.
Why is this walking zombie dependent on his muscle mass for strength?
Do they need muscles to articulate themselves?
Clearly not because the bog standard Forsaken model is missing huge chunks of muscle mass around the joints.
The whole scenario reeks of a writer wanting to force something that doesnât really jive with how things work.
Undead are fueled entirely by magic.
They can see without eyes.
Talk without jaws.
And move without muscles.
Cause theyâre friggin magic.
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While simultaneously also showing that itâs partly because of their actions, not just âthey look grossâ lol. The Undead may ACT like its purely because theyâre undead. But they can join neutral organizations alongside humans just fine with no issues. It is that the Forsaken itself are a bad culture that has always fed on the negative parts of undead existence. Even in classic, kidnapping, enslaving and using living people as experiments, trying to kill living Lordaeronians EVEN if theyâre unaligned with the Scarlet crusade and were just PEOPLE trying to live in their lands, like in Southshore. And the Forsaken mass murdered them.
In the early lore, such as the RPGs, Sylvannas did not even try to reach out to humanity too. I believe it was explicitly stated she didnât bother. Most likely because they backstabbed humans to take control of Lordaeron.
Well, that and their minds rotting away. âThe Chillâ and all. Theyâre all likely doomed to go back to being mindless at some point.
Unless something actually amounts from Maldraxxus.
Seriously, I get we hate SLs and all, but I can not get over the fact we literally were playing around with the root source of the Forsaken, Helm of Domination AND its original Creator ⊠and nothing really came of it. Like, if there was ANYONE and ANYWHERE that could improve these peopleâs quality of life, its the man who made the ugliest crown imaginable. Hell, he might even have insights into how to nurse more Scourge back to health now that their totally free of âZovaalâs influenceâ. And he has no reason not to help given it was his design being exploited that created them. We went into the land of the friggen dead, and the only thing the Undead race got from it was ⊠a handy way to quick cleanup the blight from Lordaeron?
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Sadly, I think the gameâs forgotten about the mindless state for forsaken. Wouldâve been interesting to see at least one quest with a character struggling with it, like an Alzheimerâs parallel or something.
Begrudgingly, aye. Which is better than being rejected.
As an undead of any variety youâre going to be an outcast, or a black sheep, whatever you want to call it. Most factions arenât going to welcome you with open arms (unless theyâre undead - i.e. the Ebon Blade).