I do enjoy seeing some posters act like the Alliance and Horde were always a thing since the dawn of time.
Seen some people claim that Illidan is an Alliance character over the years. All because he was a Night Elf.
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Simply if Tyrande had died in shadowlands, leadership of the Night elves would have solely landed on Malfurion. It wouldnât have gone to anyone else as no one else has the same level of leadership as these two held equally. So leadership isnât based on gender.
A matriarchy requires that a woman would always be in charge and make the decisions. We already know she doesnât make all the decisions solely for the night elves so it isnât a matriarchy. As shown by Fandrals decision to plant the tree without consequence against her wishes.
We now have all groups excepting anyone regardless of gender from druids to the priesthood to mages so itâs no longer a gender-based culture. So sure, priest hood might be the majority might be female but there is nothing stopping a male from rising through the ranks to become leader of the priesthood. same with females the cenarion circle.
Queen Mary I of England ruled the country from 1553 to 1558. Did England stop being a patriarchal society?
Of course not. Yet here youâre making an argument that says âyes, in fact England could not be a patriarchal society, because a woman ruled.â
You clearly donât know what these words mean.
I think both of you missed the subtext there. It was that claiming Cenariusâs conflict with Grom as proof of partisanship is silly when his ties to Azerothâs races transcend (and yes, far predate) the faction barrier as it exists today.
She isnât the Sole leader now nor does she have absolute authority. There is also no system setup where all leaders are set to be female in the following generation.
Neither is Tyrande queen of the Night elves. She leads because she was respected and leads the priesthood. In the same way Malfurion leads the Cenarion circle and is respected.
I canât find a definition currently that would match a Matriarchy that currently matches the Night Elves.
Sigh
Iâll repost the definition of the word, since you clearly cannot Google for yourself.
âa system of society or government ruled by a woman or womenâ
Tyrande controls the political power.
Sentinels control the military power.
Sisterhood of Elune control the religious power.
The government is run by women, across the board. Tyrande is the highest authority, even if she does have her husband at her side. Much like English monarchs had queens beside them. The military and church, both ultimately answerable to Tyrande, are still also controlled by women. Even the policing force, the Wardens, is run by women.
This shouldnât be hard to grasp, but it is.
NOTE: No where in this very simple and easy to understand definition does it say âmen cannot ever any time ever have a single position of any power at allâ. That is what you guys came up with all on your own.
And Malfurion/fandral also has political power.
He has military power.
He also has religious power.
what other woman? shandris? she is just a general. Broll bearmantle is the next archdruid.
Again, Tyrande holds power over one facate of Night elf culture, Malfurion has control over the other. Neither are the Solely the leaders of all of night elf society.
Even Maeiv and the warders have disobeyed Tyrande multiple times. Even though its female run it doesnât seem like they fully answer to Tyrande either.
Malfurion does not lead the sentinels. Shandris does. She will follow Malfurionâs lead, of course, because thatâs Tyrandeâs husband.
Malfurion has nothing at all to do with the Sisterhood of Elune, the state church of the night elves.
You are really hung up on druids.
Anyway. Shandris runs the Sentinels. âJust a generalâ is just diningenuous about the importance of the night elvesâ military.
Yeah, sure.
Military, political and religion. Throw diplomatic in there too, since sheâs the one meeting other leaders, with or without Malfurion. Thatâs⌠All one now. And literally all of that is the equivalent of⌠A neutral, apolitical organization that is nowadays as much a night elf thing as it is a tauren thing, or troll thing, or worgen thing.
If youâre not going to at least be a bit realistic in your arguments, you could try to at least be more entertaining.
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itâs weird in general how hung up on druids / sentinels / sisterhood of elune some players are.
idk any other races with this trifecta divide going on. granted, people who are typically into sentinels are also into the sisterhood.
No, he leads the druids and all those forces including the ancients and other aligned forces.
Yes and we have also seen A male lead the Night elf armies before. ravencrest, Jarod shadowsong and cenarius. Jarod was also know as the Superem commander of the Night elves armies and only stopped because he wanted to settle down.
Malfurion also spends time negotiating with leaders like Varian in Wolfheart. Remember he was the one challenged by Sylvanas not Tyrande because she saw his death would break the night elves the most. Most of the time they meet members together unless you know one is busy leading and the other fighting.
no he runs that other important facate of their culture.
Your simply putting the priesthood on a pedestal as more important than anything else. It really isnât all the night elves are about atleast now the druids are back.
Which are aligned with the neutral organization, the Cenarion Circle.
And yet, Shandris is still the general of the Sentinels, the night elf army. Your two actual night elf examples are both pre-Sundering. Pre-Sentinel army. Pre-relevant at all to anything weâre actually talking about.
One novel, where the druid Malfurion who knows about druid things talked to Varian about how he was affected by druid things.
All of Tyrandeâs meetings with leaders, such as when she went to Anduin to make her demands regarding Darkshore and unilaterally decided for her and her people, including Malfurion, that theyâd go it alone if they had to.
No. Iâm putting the whole of night elven society up as my example, and youâre out here saying âbut druids tho, so equalses!â
Druids are not all the night elves are about either.
They have the priesthood.
They have the Sentinels.
They have the Wardens.
Hell. They have a whole culture, and itâs women running nearly all of it.
But druids tho, amirite?
but are also still members of the Night elf people. I mean Tyrande has also worked along horde does that make her Gasp neutral.
Yet you only count it when it fits your narrative.
As i pointed it out it only means she does most of the political work when they are at war. When a softer touch is needed Malfurion steps in. They support each other like a Team. OMG
No you use the priesthood as your primary example even though its one and the same of the military. In the same way the Cenarion circle operate as both as well and has its own functioning forces.
Iâve already pointed out Wardens donât answer to Tyrande and have disobeyed her multiple times.
Again, Im not the one painting Malfurion as greater than Tyrande. Only that they share leadership as it benefits them to do so.
Also You keep flip floping is it either Tyrande is solely in charge and she rules everyone like a queen? or is it most of the organisations are female dominted therefore women rule? I feel like iâve disputed both these points though.
And members of the troll people, and the tauren people, and the worgen peopleâŚ
We done been oiver this already.
Iâm sorry the Cenarion Circle is a neutral organization of druids from multiple different people and is no longer strictly a night elf thing, but itâs the facts at hand.
My narrative is âthe actual government of the night elf peopleâ. Pre-Sundering, they were all ruled by Queen Azshara, or were a loose confederacy of rebels without an actual government.
My narrative is the lore and facts. Iâm sorry if that bothers you.
And at peace. She attends every single gathering of all the leaders, with or without Malfurion.
Because she is the political leader.
And Malfurion is directly beneath her, but still beneath her (perverts reading this, get your mind out of the gutter!).
And the Sentinels.
And the Wardens.
And the rest of their society beyond âthe druids thoâ.
Good for you. Theyâre led by a woman. They are mostly composed of women (are there even any known male Wardens?). I havenât once mentioned Tyrande leading them, only that they are
Led
By
A
Woman.
Iâve never once flip-flopped regarding whether Tyrande is authoritarian or not. Iâve literally never mentioned it or considered it relevant to the coversation.
Itâs not my fault if you forget other women exist and lead their respective branches of night elven society. Must be because they arenât druids.
Literally all youâve done to âdisputeâ things is talk about the Cenarion Circle and how awesome Malfurion is.
I agree, Malfurion is awesome. The Cenarion Circle is pretty dang cool.
Night elven society is still matriarchal though. That is slowly changing, sure. But just because Malfurion exists and there are male soldiers now does not change the fact it is still depicted as largely matriarchal.
Even if druids exist.
LOL, nah you just canât handle the idea that a man could be in charge of anything in that culture. Hell Fandral wielded his power more like a leader than Malf does cause he didnât respect Tyrande.
Sure woman run parts of the culture never argued they didnât your just disregarding the elements that men run as not counting.
Your the one who either argues Tyrande has sole command of the entire Night elves. I pointed out she doesnât as she and the leader of the cenarion circle seem to make decision together or separately that affect all night elves. Then you jump to your other argument that everything is run by females there for must be a matriarchy which again I point out these groups now have men and have been lead by men in the past.
You can get all cranky about it but as long as the cenarion circle exists and is run by a man it isnât a woman dominated society as they hold a station equal to that of any other group in the race.
And now the low-key sexism talk rears itâs ugly head. Way to handwave facts about the lore with bullcrap.
Iâve made my points. Your only counter has been debunked and defeated. âBut Malf and druids tho!!â Yes, they exist. Tyrande is consistently potrayed as the leader of the night elves. Not Malfurion. A matriarchal society is how night elven society has been described by Blizzard. Not egalitarian. Nothing youâve said has held up, and you know it. Thatâs why you just have to argue, ad nausium, âbut druids thoâ.
You should look into the lore of the game. You might find it interesting. Youâll certainly make better arguments and come across less foolish.
Warning though; sometimes, thereâs women. And no druids tho.
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you know sexism goes both ways right. You merely disregard my arguments with statements âdruids thoâ without bringing anything of substance.
There is the that condescending attitude.
I will finish with the following.
It wasnât Tyrande who decided to give away the Night elves immortality it was Malfurion. He made that decision for his people not her.
It was also the druids malfurion and the druids who exiled the high elves not Tyrande or her people.
What was the last important thing Tyrande decided for her people? was it to wake up the druids?
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Also Shandris is Tyrandes and Malfurions adopted child. It is why Shandris refers to Tyrande sometimes with the kaldorei word for mother.
So Shandris following Malfurionâs lead could also be seen as a parent - child thing as well 
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Because all youâve done is bring up the Cenarion Circle; a neutral organization that is important to the night elves⌠As well as the trolls and worgen and tauren druids. You think that this neutral organization being led by a male night elf is somehow a full counter to all the rest of night elf society that has remained solidly a part of itself.
Which sounds weird because it is weird.
The last important thing? Reclaiming their lands from the Horde. Again. The last time she repelled the Horde from Night Elf lands, Malfurion was off hanging out with the Horde, along with the rest of the Cenarion Circle, but since then she has consistently been inolved with her people.
But sheâs a woman and not a druid at all, so I understand why you might not remember that.
Itâs been here since you stopped making arguments based on lore and resorted to nothing but âhey, but druids tho! Druids debunk everything tho!â
Heck. Even when getting hurt that I boil your entire argument to âbut druids thoâ, all you brought was more âbut druids thoâ.
Try again later. Bring some knowledge to the party, itâll be fun.
Oh i did you must lack the ability read anything other than the word druid.
Ok, Badmad.