They already are.
In the questchain where you get Dark Ranger look, undead Blood Elf says if Tyrande will allow them back, some of them will.
And after that quest, Night Elf players get option to have Dark Rangers look. So, it seams that Tyrande did allow them back.
So you donât have an actual point. Gotcha. All you needed to say my guy. You tried to bring up points that nobody was actually making. And thatâs entirely on you.
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I have if you donât read them thats on you.
Malf has Made more impactful decisions for the Night elves as one their leaders than Tyrande has.
And Tyrande is still the female leader of the Kaldorei my guy. Him being second in command and making a few important decisions, doesnât mean Tyrande suddenly stopped running the show or that the Kaldorei stopped being a Matriarchal society.
We were talking about how the three dominate organizations in the Sentinels, Priesthood and the Wardens, with Tyrande being the overall majority leader of the Kaldorei are all female.
And you came in with ButâŚbut the druids are all mostly men guys!!. Which was a point nobody was even arguing against. Itâs just not the point you think it was. Which is why I asked what point you thought you were making.
Not a good analogy considering in Silvermoon there is a Warlock about with a Succubus out. ^^
A better one would be the Warlocks locked in the basement in Stormwind 'neath the Lamb. For no Warlock you see in Stormwind has a Demon out. (Most likely outlawed, and Warlocks likely have to be out of public eye.) Though there are Warlocks in Northshire that has an Imp out so not too sure.
Malfurion was inviting the worgens, who were instrumental in beating the Horde from Ashenvale, into the Alliance.
I can admit Malfurion has abit of a âspottyâ issue with supporting his people first before nature. But the counterarguement has always been if he doesnât protect nature his people wont be living for very long.
I used the voidlord because of the whole void elf situation.
Again, you canât cherry pick a singe instance where the models are randomly generated. The models of those NPCs were probably made in 10 mins by an unpaid intern.
When you actually go into Kaldorei territory, in places where the character design is much more direct, often with named guards. They are all women.
Again, this is cherry picking evidence. Neither side is very definitive. But go ahead and insist on this because it is only thing you have. You still have my mountain of evidence to climb that you only seem to ignore.
No, itâs not.
Itâs quotes from lore books, novels, tweets, interviews. I have hammered this home in multiple threads and the only thing people have been able to come back with it
âMalfurion exists.â
âMale sentinels existâ
I have already won this debate.
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Fair enough.
Kaldorei as a society pre-Catacylsm WAS an Amazonian-Female dominated race. Even certain âoccupationsâ for a lack of a better term were locked. For example women could not be Cenarion Druids, Men could not be a Priest of Elune, etc. Women were always put in a position of power comparatively to men â where they were often the ones to stay home with children & be teachers.
Sentinels (Which is the equivalent to Guards/Rangers) were also locked to women only until I believe Cataclysm â and even now there are still some sections of the Sentinels that would be women-only.
Wardens were also a woman-locked role in life as well.
And, systematically â and societal they were dominate over men. They were more often in places of power. One of the few men that were/are is Malfurion. High Priestessâs of Elune are the Leaders. Which again-- before Cataclysm, was only filled with Women. Sentinels â who basically were the protectors of the land were also only filled with Women.
I would like to note this is BFA. Which is AFTER Cataclysm â which is guess what after gender roles were released.
The Shenâdralar are Highborne. NOT Kaldorei. Therefore this argument is moot. And one of the âbestâ fighters among them was a woman as well. They were also led by Queen Azshara at one point too â who is also a woman.
Shenâdralar once again are NOT Kaldorei. They are Highborne.
This doesnât relate to what they are saying. They are saying you are finding a desperate reason to say that a female-led society isnât a female-led society, when it is. Even now I would say it is still a mostly female-led society.
Itâs very obvious that Tyrande is not the âonlyâ female lead.
They already have dropped gender roles. It is just right now that all Men that are training in those roles would be acolytes/apprentices â etc. Because they are new. You do realize it takes time to learn? And Kaldorei live very long lives, and they spend decades learning a singular thing.
He is the leader of the Cenarion circle, Not the Kaldorei. He is married to Tyrande, and yes he has a lot of say, but he cannot straight up command the Kaldorei and override her. Even on the wiki it states âCo-rulerâ â Which means that Tyrande is still THE leader, he is just a Co-lead. At the end of the day Tyrandes word would be final.
The Druids are NOT just Kaldorei though. And Kaldorei Druids are still very loving of Elune â just as they are of the Wild Gods. Shenâdralar are Highborne (NOT KALDOREI) like mentioned before. Itâs really unknown if they believe in Elune or not. They mostly care about Magic.
Which is only recent of Cataclysm. Where they would still be learning. We do see more Male Sentinels â yes. But it would still be mostly female-dominated for awhile.
Shenâdralar donât really have a âleadâ. They have an archmage. Thatâs it. The Prince is dead. Demon Hunters arenât really lead by Illidan now and are mostly lead either by the high-ranking, or are mercs I imagine now.
That is the Druids, not the main bulk of Kaldorei â the main bulk would likely respect them a lot, but not necessarily worship them as the Druids do.
And theyâre apart of the Kaldorei now â serving under Tyrande.
Because you are only attempting to say that the Kaldorei is a male-dominated society. They are in fact not.
What you want and what you get is different. The Kaldorei arenât a faction. Theyâre a race. It isnât sexist for the Kaldorei to be ruled by a woman.
Quoting this as this is also another part ^^ Theyâre basically outcasts, same with Death Knights.
Thereâs sources in the wiki. Go read them. This stems from the books, from what theyâve posted. ETC.
I hope this clears everything up for yâall on Kaldorei.
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They are also night elves. You can be both.
None of the factions are matriarchies/patriarchies nowadays. All the playable races are now in varying states of egalitarianism. Tyrande and Malfurion are co ruling said faction nowadays.
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Not exactly. Kaldorei could grow to resemble them intensively after magic usage, but you canât âbecomeâ a Highborne and âbeâ a Kaldorei. You were born into Highborne Heritage.
Stormwind City would like to speak with you, considering Anduin Wrynn is the Patriarchal ruler of Stormwind. Quelâthalas would like to speak with you, considering all three ârulersâ (Technically the other two are just like people who given him opinions I believe & militarical/magical leads.) Is lead by the Regent-Lord Lorâthemar. A ruler is a ruler. Some are ruled by Councils. But of those groups and talking of SOLE leaders. There are patriarchies/matriarchies.
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All Highborne from Dire Maul remained night elves/Kaldorei.
If Anduin were in the future to have a kid(and still ruled Stormwind). I doubt he would deny the throne to them if they were a woman. Especially considering he particularly did not like what happened to Moira.
Lotherâmar is the only ruler of the blood elves currently. And he kind of just ended up in said position because he was one of the few high ranking blood elves left. If for example, Sylvanas had not died, she could have easily ended up regent(considering she was a higher rank then Lotherâmar)
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Occupations do not define a genderarchy treatment does. Common males were and are not subordinate to common females nor vice versa. The reason the Sentinels were female dominated for most of pre-cataclysm was that a huge segment of the male population had been drafted into the Emerald Dream.
And Lord Xavius, and Jarod Shadowsong, and Illidan, and Lord Ravencrest, the amount of named leaders is pretty balanced genderwise which it would not be even close under a true genderarchy
When Krasus and Rhonin arrive in the past, they are not put in subordinate roles, nor even assumed to belong to such because of their male gender. Broxigar is treated the way he is because of his appearance, not his gender, and heâs treated that way by the male night elves.
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Wrong, once again.
They were not Kaldorei --EVER-- they were always Highborne. And they were Highborne who went into hiding.
Again, that is the future, not the now. Right now he is Patriarchal.
And that is a what if.
Thatâs not true either. They barred men from being Sentinels, and Priestâs of Elune, just as women were barred from becoming Cenarion Circle Druids. There were gender roles.
An advisor to Queen Azshara at best who clearly became an outcast. He was never a ruler. Also a Highborne.
Went into self-exile, and came back â and he does not carry a fancy title. Mind you he also came back DURING Cataclysm. {Where Gender Roles were released.} Additionally he was nothing more then apart of the Highborne Army.
Another exiled, outcasted, and straight up criminal to the Kaldorei. He was never very highly looked upon and he was also a Mage back in the day. Which for Highborne did not have a gender role locked to them.
Also a Highborne, not a Kaldorei. Theyâre different societies â they used to be combined, but that was loooong ago.
Except being a President is an occupation. Additionally they were Matriarchal because Women were the ones in charge, they were the ones doing the ruling. This you can see by: Tyrande and Azshara. Both were rulers over Highborne & Kaldorei alike.
Krasus and Rhonin were also different races. They were not Kaldorei.
Iâd also like to remind you that Ravencrest was a Warrior. He was not a Sentinel, nor a Priestess. Which both of those have a lot more upstanding in Kaldorei Culture â whilst he was a highly respected man. He could not be compared to how Priestess of Eluneâs are revered among Kaldorei culture.
You seem to use a lot of non-Kaldorei references the first two being Illidan â who was an outcast, and Jarod who was also an outcast.
Xavius, Jarod, Illidan, and Lord Ravencrest were not leaders of the entire race keep this in mind. Yes they have led small forces in the past. But they do not reflect the Kaldorei nor Highborne.â
To also clear up for Zerde. Highborne were a different society they were an upper class of ancient Kaldorei civilization. Think of them as like how the Void Elves are â a Different kind of Kaldorei. For they were modified by Arcane to typically have shades of blue â or purple skin. (Mostly blue) and pure white hair, some even had black â but the primary colors were blue and white. They also eventually became the Quelâdorei.
Regardless, they do not run the same way as Kaldorei do. They have different cultures â with similarities that overlapped. Now a days it would likely be hard to spot a Highborne from a Kaldorei. But back in the day they were pretty distinct. (For example â Kaldorei women go through a Rite of Passage â which is where they get their facial markings. Highborne do not bear markings that the Kaldorei do.)
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Highborne are Night Elves⌠at least in the Pre-Sundering era.
Given the Night Elvesâ general xenophobic attitudes, you believe that Long-eared Amazons you imagine them to be would hold the males of alien races as equals?
Yes, magically modified (typically) Kaldorei. And still yet they differ quite a fair bit in comparison to Kaldorei.
I said the opposite if anything. Trying to use two men of a different race as âwell this is why they arenât matriarchalâ seems a bit faulty.
Highborne were a sect of Kaldorei. They are Night Elves.
For generations, the night elves had experimented with the Well of Eternity. As they mastered its energies and unraveled the mysteries of the arcane, they became gifted and ambitious sorcerers. The greatest of these magic users were Queen Azshara and a sect of night elven society known as the Highborne. Thewir unbridled pursuit of magic led to wondrous accomplishments, but it also brought their empire to ruin.
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This is from exile of the High Elves which is a book located in game
As the centuries passed, the night elvesâ new society grew strong and expanded throughout the budding forest that they came to call Ashenvale. Many of the creatures and species that were abundant before the Great Sundering, such as furbolgs and quilboars, reappeared and flourished in the land. Under the druidsâ benevolent leadership, the night elves enjoyed an era of unprecedented peace and tranquility under the stars.
The druids could not bring themselves to put so many of their kin to death, so they decided to exile the reckless Highborne from their lands. DathâRemar and his followers, glad to be rid of their conservative cousins at last, boarded a number of specially crafted ships and set sail upon the seas. Though none of them knew what awaited them beyond the waters of the raging Maelstrom, they were eager to establish their own homeland, where they could practice their coveted magics with impunity.
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kaldorei basically is elvish for Night Elfs. The Highborne were still Night Elves. those in Dire Maul remained as such. Those who defected to the resistance during the WotA later became High Elves (including Blood Elves and Void Elves) as they were banished for their illegal use of the Arcane. Those who stayed loyal to Azshara would become Naga following the Legions defeat while those loyal to Xavius would become Satyrs.
Highborne was a socio-economic caste. Not a different race altogether.
Ravencrest was never part of the Highborne. That is stated in the novels. It is why the theory that male Highborne lords got the title of Prince (e.g. Prince Farondis) while non Highborne lords (like Kulâtalos) simply got Lord, exists.
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