Tyrande in Elegy vs 8.1

Its a balancing act. You have to balance the sort of work you want to do, and the monetary reward you get for doing it. You don’t lack integrity for wanting to make more money, so you can feed your family, pay off student loans, send your kids to college, retire at a reasonable age, etc.

No, you can have other motivation to turn down bribery than altruism.

An idealistic view of the work you do.

like not getting in trouble because accepting bribes is a felony

You can have other motivators besides altruism or idealism.

Look, to bring this back to the original point; are you arguing that the Night elves should, while they are weakened from the War of Thorns, should abandon their mutually beneficial alliance with the Alliance, because the other Alliance races also benefit from the arrangement? Because if so, then that would be a monumental error.

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especially since all the night elf refugees live in stormwind now

Being motivated by purely selfish reasons is called being a sociopath, who often care little about the consequences of their actions. The Law is not a very strong deterrent for such things.

Yeah, if you are a sociopath.

No, because I do not think the Alliance has been beneficial to the Night Elves, and in fact, I think the Alliance is at fault for most of the problems the Night Elves currently face.

So, the Night elves should just fight the entire Horde all on our own? After the fall of Teldrassil? While our people are literal refugees in Stormwind? Even if the Alliance is as dastardly as you portray, what you propose makes no sense, given how weak our race is right now.

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if someone decides not to do something because of the risk of incarceration then by definition that you just gave they are not a sociopath because as you said they care little about the consequences of their actions, and not wanting to go to jail for a crime is considered caring about the consequences of their actions

the law is the strongest deterrent for such things. because nobody wants to go to jail, so people will try to avoid getting in trouble.

The Gnomes have trusted the Alliance to help them get back Gnomergon as soon as it’s a “priority”. 14 years later and the 1 attempt that was made, the Alliance military didn’t help AT ALL, and the Gnomes failed. Maybe if the Night Elves just wait around for 14 years, and lose lives making new Human kingdoms all that time, they will become as much of a “priority” as the Gnomes!

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What is the alternative? Is there another military superpower on Azeroth that will immediately send all of its troops to help us take back our land? Should we just do it alone, take on the entire Horde by ourselves? The Alliance is far and away the the best option we have to help take back our home.

I think you are underestimating the Night Elves’ current strength. The Burning of Teldrassil didn’t weaken the Kaldorei, all it did was unite them and direct their rage. The Horde thinks they can Hold the forests of Kalimdor? Against an angry force of Night Elves empowered by the night warrior, who are already said to be the greatest Guerilla fighters on Azeroth…. Good luck.

And are thus capable of empathy and altruistic feelings.

The law is actually pretty bad at a lot of things. It’s main function is to control and domesticate a population, not to seek out justice and what is right.

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Outside of metal health issues, even. Again, this all still misses the fact that actual performance is what matters, not intent.

Says you…

If the Night Elves wait for the Alliance to prioritize them the same way the Gnomes have futility been for 14 years, all the Night Elf cities left in Hyjal, Winterspring, etc will be long gone by then.

Tyrande is right, and High King Anduin is failing the Alliance by not supporting her.

So we should spurn the Alliance, and any help they could possibly offer, including Genn Greymane and the PC, who follow Tyrande to Darkshore, because we hope we’ll be able to fight off the combined might of the Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins, and Forsaken all on our own, after the disaster that was the Wor of Thorns.

empathy maybe, but altruism plays little part because they are not acting entirely out of selflessness. everyone is motivated by self interest to a degree, i work because it is in my self interest to be paid, i don’t break the law because it is not in my self interest to go to jail.

even though you couldn’t before and got destroyed by sylvanas

War of Thorns was a disaster for the Horde. The Night Elves fought the full might of the Horde to a stalemate will a skeleton force and town militia while most of their army was sailing back from Silithus…

… This is not even close to the worst thing to ever happen to the Night Elves. And the Night Elves have repeatedly gone toe to toe with the Horde without Alliance aid.

Just because you see the world that way doesn’t mean I have too.

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