None of which stops it from being a genocide.
None of which stopped the Horde from marching on Ashenvale. Like, it doesn’t matter. What keeps being overlooked is threatening and killing civillains was Saurfangs entire plan. To attack the Night Elven civilians to stop the Alliance.
Mass death was always the end goal.
Given that his unorthodox methods nearly resulted in a second Sundering or worse, both she and Malfurion JUST might have a point.
Remember that it was Malfurion that imprisoned him… she really didn’t have a say in that part.
Fair. That wasn’t the issue. The Horde NPC saying he’s right and justified was the issue.
It doesn’t feel good to be talked down to.
Which is back to the main point. Horde and Alliance characters shouldn’t interact with opposing factions if Blizzard is going to focus on war narratives.
That’s pretty much how both factions, Alliance AND Horde roll. When they make war, it’s not to play pattycake.
The fact that the Alliance stepped back at the end of MoP says that isn’t true, what with the company line being at that point in time that the Alliance was the “sole remaining superpower on Azeroth”… For whatever good it did them.
They stepped back because the Pandarens stepped IN and called a time out on both factions. And there was that civil war thing.
No, Varian stepped back at the end of SoO, what with Jaina’s whole… “Dismantle the Horde”.
For a lot of good putting Vol’jin into warchief did. Poor dude was Sylvanas’ed
It’s a little funny… The Horde played such a small role in Legion, that I think it’s feasible to say the Alliance could have won without them. Especially when you consider that it’s Garrosh’ fault that AU Gul’dan opened the portal for the Legion invasion to begin with.
If the Alliance had listened to Jaina in MoP, we wouldn’t be dealing with any of the messes we are dealing with now. The reason that’s funny is because we all know Blizzard never intended that, but their complete lack of narrative awareness has not only villainized the Horde, but made them appear as the idiot faction that can’t help but to constantly make things worse.
Considering the quest in Shadowlands how Thrall literally yeets his Axe at a God, then later proceeds to use a crossbow as if it were a bludgeon… Instead of, you know… shooting it… I think there is plenty of material to make a very real case that orcs in Warcraft have always been the big dumb brutes that conventional fantasy has always portrayed them as.
It’s the biggest problem to the story right now, to the point that I don’t think there can be a recovery and return to “cold war” or “allies”.
The Horde is now responsible for the destruction of three Alliance nations, albeit the doggos had a hand in Tea and crumpet land. It’s far more harm than the Old Gods, Burning Legion and post WC-3 scourge combined have done to the Alliance
True, we defended the territories we already had. But that isn’t exactly proportinonal to how hard we were hit.
Have the Horde help repair that which they broke. Have them help the still living Night elves repair their lands and their homes. Have everyone who gave a single order during the burning, and who stayed with Sylvanas until 8.2.5, executed. And every loyalist, who refuses to help fix what they broke, be cast out of the Horde. And then have the Horde promise that they will leave Night elven lands, such as Ashenvale and Darkshore, forever.
I think that’s about what they can do. And while that won’t erase what they did, it’s what they can do to make ammends, and it’s a lot more than nothing.
Argghhh, don’t put salt in the wound! lol 
So true… that intro was salt for Horde pride all the way (for me at least)… I was like: “I remember Thrall was smarted than this” QQ
Alliance may have their big laser Nuking spaceships but we have… SPIKES in our Capital city! Waaarrg! 
On a more serious note: “I’m sometimes think Blizz does this on purpose to get us agitated and all rile up” 
I really hope SL ends up with a better story… if not I’m just gonna take breaks from it, play other games, like I did in BfA and just play story with catch up system. 
Thing is, the orcs in particular have been a force of destruction that I think arguable rivals anything else Azeroth has faced.
Now the entire fabric of reality is unraveling in Northrend, the cycle of life and death is broken, you have yet another massive interplanar war at hand, with is guaranteed to but chalk full of atrocities. And there are people who still think the Horde, and even Sylvanas, are the Good guys?
Hitler starts a World War and genocides everyone he doesn’t like one time, and he is considered to be among the most evil men in human history. The Horde has done that multiple times… Yet people still insist they are heroes?
Now, I have Horde characters. Funny enough, I had Orc and Forsaken characters… They are probably my favorite Horde races. Doesn’t change what their lore is, which is frustrating, no doubt. Nor am I trying to imply that any of that is the player’s fault. Surely, a lot of this can be attributed to just lazy storytelling.
However, merely speaking on a level of story analysis… because we are all here talking about it, so this is clearly a world we all enjoy and interested in despite it’s faults… Can we say that the Horde really hasn’t been a force for good since they arrived in Azeroth? Can we say that they have actually caused more harm than good? Because I think we can.
Edit: To tie this back to the topic of this thread, it is actually weird that Tyrande didn’t become radically opposed to the Horde (And even the Alliance for that matter) sooner. The institutions of the Alliance and Horde, and the conflict they bring, has been a net loss for the Night Elves as a whole. It is actually really interesting because, if Blizzard was more intelligent in they way they told stories, they could tell a really interesting story here about isolationist vs interventionalist foreign policy and culture conflicts. Maybe even has some kind of Satsuma Rebllion analogue.
I actually find that kinda charming. Their brains are connected to Common Sense via flimsy lightning cable and the minute violence is introduced, it pops out.
In the BfA launch cinematic you can see the exact moment Saurfangs cable disconnects.
Im hoping this expansion is the last we see of Tyrande. Shes just a ragey mad lady now which seems super hypocritical towards her past arcs.
She would do anything to defend her home, and it was obliterated. Ancient forests cultivated by the elves for thousands of years are now being clearcutted by smelly greenskins, Idl does it not seem plausible she would turn into a rage monster hellbent on destroying the forces responsible?
Here is another thought though… In Shadowlands, we see plantlife. In Ardenweald especially, plantlife with Anima. The implication that can be made there is that plants have souls.
There’s a reasonable resolution that doesn’t involve “murdering the Horde”, and is certainly better than “just forget it happened”. We can resolve this by rebuilding what was taken from us and coming out stronger. I can’t find where I said it before, but it was something like this. Here’s what I want as a Night Elf fan:
Optional bonuses: Let Tyrande keep the Night Warrior powers; Tyrande lands the killing blow on Sylvanas; Night Elf Paladins; rebuild/unblight Lor’danel.
Killing hereto-unnamed “Horde commanders” won’t bring me any satisfaction. If they weren’t shown in the War of Thorns. Killing named Horde characters would cause more problems than its worth.
However, there is a reasonable resolution, and most of it doesn’t involve killing Horde characters, except Sylvanas (who barely counts as Horde right now). I’ll confess the “Tyrande lands killing blow” is greedy, which is why I’m leaving it optional. Just rebuild and empower the race. That’s it.
Also, give the Forsaken some love while you’re at it.
I will say, I am not hopeful for this to happen, however, I think it’s something that should happen. I will, however, settle for Delaryn getting the killing blow. As Sylvanas’ eyes go wide with fear, face to face with the existential crisis she has been selfishly trying to avoid for years, Delayrn says “I grieve for you.”
I can get behind that.
I see Sylvanas going down in one of those really sentimental anime/cartoon sequences where everyone that she did wrong manages to get a good hit in before she dies, everyone with their one liners ready.
Blizzard would never do this because they want to be woke and that would make Sylvanas, the most popular strong independent woman of the franchise, look weak and powerless. They won’t do that.
What’s funny is they won’t do anything to make Sylvanas look weak or anything, but then they will turn around and go back to their macho writing next expansion when they villain bat Yrel.