Yes. Nothing is better than being punished. You’re not being dragged through the mud for multiple expansions over something you had no part in.
3 Likes
LOL your logic basically comes down to: “I want the Horde to be able to do whatever they want without any consequence because the players have no say in the story.”
Like okay? So the Alliance player base is supposed to just be okay with having one of their races genocide’d? That is delusional thinking.
Should the Horde player be punished for Teldrassil? No. Should the Horde faction be punished? Yes absolutely. This could easily be done without affecting the Horde player AT ALL, Blizzard just hasn’t done it.
11 Likes
No, it doesn’t.
My argument is that punishment for something I had no part in is not fun, good, or exciting and it is worse than getting nothing.
Don’t strawman.
4 Likes
Yeah and as I said, Blizzard easily can punish the Horde without punishing the player. They have chose not to. They easily could make a scenario where Tyrande and the Night Elves go after and hunt down the generals, commanders, and ones responsible for the burning. Blizzard can make named NPCs (just made up) who were there and remained loyal to Sylvanas, and then they all get hunted down and killed.
The Horde player is not punished in any way here, and the Night Elf/Alliance get some retribution for Teldrassil. Then in Ardenweald the Alliance player deals with the souls of the Night Elves in the Maw, not the Horde. Boom. Done. Horde is punished. Horde player is not.
13 Likes
Nathanos and Sylvanas? The burning was spur of the moment, bud. If they actually existed I’d be fine with that idea, but it isn’t congruent with what actually happened.
Tyrande killed Nathanos and Sylvanas is likely not making it out of Shadowlands. Also the burning may have been spur of the moment, but the shamans that fanned the fires sure didn’t object. Hell none of the Horde commanders there seemed to object other than Saurfang. All of them could be hunted down and killed in a scenario by the Night Elves.
14 Likes
Scary thing with this logic, is that most of the Horde is guilty of the burning of teldrassil simply because they stayed in the Horde.
Where do we draw the line? Because with that logic, we are going to lose the 5 characters that still have relevance in the Horde… besides Thrall, who apparently doesn’t want anything to do with us. And we both know that players wont be satisfied if they kill 5 random shamans and 4 unnamed generals that were totally at the burning.
I feel like this is why it needs to be dropped in the story. There is no reasonable resolution to it, no matter which way you cut it. Yea it sucks that the burning happened but realistically the horde should be dismantled… and that can’t happen in a two faction game.
And I can’t stress it enough… it is tiring to be hammered as the bad guys time and time again for something we had no control over.
15 Likes
Lets be real here, it was destined to be a Major Failure, the moment we all found out that a previous Night Warrior used their power to battle an Old God Solo.
Honestly I think the only option even if it amounts to her doing nothing with it, is for the power to become too much and either split it among a bunch of others or have it taken away, and give some reason on why it was ramping up in her fast and not being able to handle it anymore.
(Splitting it among a bunch of others is not the best idea, since blizz does this a bunch, powerful troops that are strong at first but then used as fodder later to show how strong we or the enemy is. Lightforged, Demon Hunters, Death Knights, Dark Rangers, Loa infused/powered Zandalari or regular trolls, any old god powered minion etc.
You already know the amount of people who wouldn’t mind at first that everyone gets the Night warrior power until they’re used as fodder to show how strong the newest enemy or the Horde now is.)
I think the safest bet even if it pisses off players is to have her give away/ lose the power stopping the jailers attack to save a bunch of either the pc’s or like the Winter queen or something idk, Since if she kills Sylvanas or solo’s some huge elite enemy that we had no chance against etc. it’s really going to once again leave players pissed at
A) Why wasn’t this done earlier if she had the power to do this?
B) If she was this strong why did the war last more than 5 minutes after she obtained this power and all those lives were wasted?
C) The alliance once again has some super powered being even if possibly de-powered now, really paints the picture of the Horde ain’t S…T, if the only reason they’re ever alive is because blizz comes up with some arbitrary reason or just chooses to ignore certain things.
(Since idk about ya’ll but I hate being painted a villain, but what I hate more than that is when the only reason I don’t lose or am not wiped out is because the writers come up with stupid reasons or ignore certain things to push the plot along)
(It’s like dueling in pvp and you know if this insert class here actually popped any of their cd’s i’d be screwed since i’ve already used everything and they’re still standing, maybe a little annoyed I scuffed their armor)
TLDR: Get rid of her power, it should of never been introduced and is a detriment to the actual story the longer it stays in because players will continue to wonder why said character isn’t being utilized at all or why said character doesn’t just do everything if they have this much power, (Look at just about any super powered alliance character)
5 Likes
This alone paints Tyrande in a super self centered light. She can’t be bothered to contact her Super Goddess (Big G) who is Goddess (Big G) of All gods (little g) unless the night elves are directly suffering. We’ve had how many scenarios where Tyrande’s allies were dying by the score and she now canonically just did not care?
2 Likes
she’s just running around screaming about vengeance. Even Maiev was more methodical
8 Likes
I think its starting to head towards something interesting, but I cant really say since its super unfinished
1 Like
well it happened, and nothing can undo the fact that it happened. Pandora’s box has been opened. Only way to close it, is if those who were responsible such as commanders die. or if horde makes tremendous sacrifice to heal the wound inflicted.
3 Likes
Timeywimey can undo that it happened.
Ignoring it can undo that it happened.
Regrowing the tree can undo that it happened.
By all means, keep reinforcing that players deserve to be punished for it. You’ll see more people with nelf fatigue.
2 Likes
ignoring it wont undo it.
The thing is that it happened, if you like it or not. it occurred, and as such, it would be worse to ignore it.
9 Likes
Ignoring a thing tends to make people increasingly loud and bitter. Just regrowing Teldrassil would be equally unpleasant as it trivializes the whole storyline.
They should of not pulled that trigger, it was plot napalm. But as they DID, we have to tackle the issue. I do not think Horde players should get held accountable for their faction’s plot mandated actions. they are people, after all, just like anyone else.
I do think the faction leaders should be ran through the ringer where applicable, though. The Sin’dorei should of been outraged at the entire thing as it was Arthas’ march to the Sunwell 2.0 for example, and their leadership should of had some really tough questions being asked of them from their people.
16 Likes
That’s the only thing that has happened to a horde leader for ten years. It’s long since time the Alliance suffered while the Horde is exulted.
6 Likes
Indifference.
I feel the Night Warrior is an accessory that isn’t really intrusive to her as a character. I feel if anything, that punk attitude she’s adopted should had just been something inherent to her, given her sharp attitude of “Only Elune can tell me what to do!” over the span of Warcraft 3. She has extreme devotion to Elune, it seems only natural that someone who’s life reflects the teachings of her goddess would be able to both embody Mother Moon and the Night Warrior as a natural demeanor.
I feel that the necessity of the Night Warrior ritual wasn’t really sold. Everything in the campaign Alliance side just felt like this could be solved with normal guerilla warfare. If she had, say, been in extreme peril, matrix leaping out of blight bombardments, dodging hails of arrow fire and still taken to the brink just to achieve victory, just to showcase how dire of a situation it would had been without it, it would have earned its position as plot piece. I know that Warcraft is capable of portraying this necessity, because the same story arc happens when Grommash and his warband drinks the demon blood to kill Cenarius, because it’d be nigh impossible without it.
Instead, she just star showers a unit of dudes and has a stalemate fight on the beach front, with the unnamed masses that do the actual fighting (which I honestly prefer more, because I hate the concept of heroes, but this is a subject specifically to talk about Tyrande and her story).
Now they’re still pushing on it as a plot point, I just can’t help but shrug my shoulders and say “… so?”. There will be no consequence as a result of her embracing this apparently self-destructive power, she’ll continue to exist as a character, nothing will change and nothing will come of it. And I know they won’t kill her off or punish her for it because it would start a nuclear meltdown that would be extremely dangerous for the Warcraft franchise, a product that exists only to make money. They’re not about to take risks after how badly BFA was botched.
It feels like they made the Night Warrior story for no reason. It just wasn’t necessary to tell the story they wanted.
But I don’t think it’s effected Tyrande as a character at all. It doesn’t make me like her more or dislike her more.
12 Likes
I say failure, mostly for the following:
We haven’t really seen her do anything that wasn’t already in her wheelhouse. Maybe the moonfire spam, but it’s not all that different from Ye Olde Starshardes Night Elf priests used to have anyway. And there are still videos of the notably less powerful Shandris doing the same, and wiping out everyone in Orgrimmar.
I suppose there’s the on-demand eclipse. Which, she gets style points for, but I’m not sure it does anything practical.
And this.
Thiernax: “With the Night Warrior’s power, I killed an Old God.”
Tyrande: “I had to try twice to kill a single zombie archer.”
15 Likes
She is a weak character.
I’ve lost all my respect towards her when she ran to save her love instead of saving her people, so weak willed, so self centered, never put her people as priority. Malfurion was her priority since day one, yet the night elves saw her as their savior.
I dont think she will get offed. I hope they work on her character, she has the dynamics to become something other than your every other alliance leader who are nothing but knights in shining armors. But I doubt the average alliance player can handle her doing questionable things.
4 Likes
Sorry buddy, I missed this reply.
The existence of orcs isn’t used as a means to constantly remind and penalize you for a crime you did not commit. If I run into a night elf as a Horde character there is a 10/10 chance I am going to be spoken to of Teldrassil.
2 Likes