Tyrande as the Night Warrior: Success or Failure?

Well because it IS personal, immersion is a thing and some people were immersed in the lore since wc3 was released.

We got people from both sides that are really bad at coping with that loss to say the least.

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I would say it’s not even that. It’s how blizzard uses its characters to moralize to its playerbase why certain players suck for liking a particular race(looking at you worgen, Night elves, trolls and orcs).

Nothing wrong with taking the lore personally, it’s just when people demand the other half of the player base should suffer for choices they had no hand in that people have a problem with.

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I liked the NW concept initially as it tied in to old lore about Elune. But I dislike horribly what they did with it, and the portrayal was abysmal. They initially brought in the risk of the ritual, which Tyrande overcame, only to have another setback in the form of the power taxing her life.
Normally, this would be okay but that power is not proportional… all the things she does with it, she could do before, right since her introduction in warcraft 3.

And people calling Tyrande a hypocrite in front of illidan… you just don’t get it, do you? Illidan did far worse things than simply using fel magic. And Tyrande is using the power of Elune, not some void magic or being empowered by Nzoth- stop conflating superficial things. Illidan pursuing
vengeance was not even the reason Tyrande forsook him.

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I can’t say whether or not the character / story arc is a success or failure yet, because it isn’t over.

What I can say is that so far it’s gotten me worried about Tyrande, which is more than what’s come before did. So success so far, I guess?

There were people definitively posting from a place of grief, specially at the beggining of bfa.

i agree with your statement about this tho because i know the horde didnt have a swell time being told all the expansion how they suck for commiting a genocide they didnt had a choice or how tyrande is being portrayed as being in the wrong.

Most of the time ive seen that its either the grief or the tribalism talking.

Once you understand that its pretty easy to ignore those posts, if you wish to argue tho you just have to point out it aint happening they cant just delete half of the playerbase and enjoy the tirade.

back on topic tho, on torghast and about the nightfae storyline.

Summary

i dont quite know what they expect us to feel with the nightwarrior is killing her so she has to let go of that, mirroring how vengeance can slowly consume the person.

i mean yes on real life i encourage that type of thinking but it abolutely sucks major balls having to do that repeatidly on a game, this isnt the first time my faction has to forgive the horde for attacking us.

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Some of these replies are a bit yikes, to be honest, and those posting them should probably re-examine their ability to actively explore the story and lore in an objective fashion. I get that we all have our biases, but yeesh…

On topic, it’s too early to tell if it’s been a success or failure in terms of a narrative path. While she’s been the Night Warrior for around a year now, we’ve only collectively seen her active and doing things as the Night Warrior for a handful of times in game, or even in books. It’s not really a feasible thing to judge whether or not the power up is a success or a failure until it’s reached a conclusion, or at least a chapter end, which is hasn’t.

Thus far, it’s a mixed bag, and most of the negatives are of course due to the faction war roots the power up is based on. The initial reason for the Night Warrior was to strike at the Horde, but as we saw and have discussed ad nauseum, it was only used to actually strike at the Horde… once, to marginal effect in terms of narrative impact. Everything else has been against the Jailer and his forces, which thus far I’ve found to be fairly decent, though I dislike the emphasis on Shandris, as much as I like her as a character (outside of BfA). Her talking down to the Horde as a complaint is something that I’ve learned not to take seriously, as it’s only ever mean words, and has never manifested into an actual strike on that faction. You can’t have it both ways, either you want Alliance leaders to be flawed and more hard-edged, or you want them to be nice.

All in all, while I like some of the mowing down Jailer’s servants and flat out running through Torghast traps like they’re nothing, I’m of the mind that this ‘arc’ will have no lasting impact and is purely meant to close the narrative can of worms that was the Burning and War of Thorns. By the end of the expansion, either Tyrande will die and Shandris will become the new faction leader, and a much more milquetoast one therein, or Tyrande will be cleansed of the Night Warrior’s power and all will be well, with both cases resulting in the events that caused the arc in the first place never mentioned again.

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she went from very annoying to very whinning annoying to me , so it didnt really help her persona wise + the fact that at leats from as far as I know this night warrior BS isnt normally canon if it was , she would have used it way way before teldrassil , to help againts the legion the lich king ectect idk man

I don’t understand why they had to break the lore to had something like this to add power to tyrande knowing that even before the night warrior buff tyrande was already a pretty BS character in lore , that had enough if not too much power for the sake of the story to make sense in the first place

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Personally I don’t get all the drama.

It’s not like the game makes you lurk around the gradeschool production of Midsommar’s Night Dream. The best Covenant is sitting right there, letting you make tophats for abominations. If you choose the inferior options you really only have yourself to blame.

Seriously though when I do get around to Ardenweald on my Rogue I’ll probably just roll my eyes at her. Oh she’s stand offish despite needing my help, again, what else is new?

One thing is being immersed or attached, believe me, I am too.

Another is making it personal. “Horde players should suffer because of Teldrassil”
“Alliance can eat my non descriptive body part”.

I have my fair share of grudges against horde players (mainly the 5 dudes back in 2019 ganking me leveling up), but is another to hate players because of the story.

i already addressed this when i replied to micah.

if its about pvp i no longer have any griefs, cant have it if you want 2 git gud, else i would get angry every time a rogue zaps me.

also

The Night Warrior arc has lots of potential to be great but sadly it started all wrong. Everything would be just good with no probles if only there was a clear hint that Nathanos and the Val’kyr were empowered by some cosmic being. Without that everything falls flat because there’s no way to salvage Nathanos going toe to toe against Tyrande + Malfurion + Elune + PC Champion.

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Mystery Meat.

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I see what you did there and this pupper approves :gift_heart:

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TL;DR: The Night Warrior empowerment in-and-of-itself hasn’t accomplished anything great on-screen so far. However, taking it at surface level, I’ve liked it, and it has helped me like Tyrande a lot more. That said, whether or not it is ultimately a success, in my book, will fall on what she’s able to do with it by the end of Shadowlands, and whether or not she gets to keep it.

Full Thoughts

I like Tyrande, and I like her as the Night Warrior.

I’ll confess, if BfA did anything right, it was make me rally behind Tyrande. I’ve been a night elf fan since I started playing, back in Burning Crusade. Tyrande never really played a huge role in-game. I missed MoP and haven’t read most of the books, so my impression is largely what I’ve seen in-game. However, I passively liked her on the basis of her being the kaldorei leader.

I first really saw her in Legion. Unpopular opinion, but I liked her in Val’sharrah, I liked her in Suramar, and I liked her in the War of Thorns. Immediately, she acted like what I imagined a kaldorei would act like, she was effective, and she wore her flaws on her sleeve. She was cool.

Then, the Night Warrior. As a night elf fan, I was hype, but we all know how Darkshore went down. Then, without her Night Warrior powers being shown to contribute to the victory, suddenly… She’s turning evil because of them? Getting consumed by rage? Still, she’s acting as a much-needed foil to Anduin’s saccharine rhetoric. She was the one voice that captured how I felt as a Night Elf fan: anger. She became the Avatar of Vengeance for me in the audience, and I loved it.

She got highlights in the Shadowland’s prepatch. She was the only one to escape capture (albeit off screen :roll_eyes:) , and I personally (albeit tentatively) loved the cinematic of her killing Nathanos. Then, she yeets herself into the Maw (middle fingers up all the way down), and that was amazing.

I've gotten to Chapter 3 of the Night Fae campaign

Mreh… I don’t like her zerging out. At the least, everyone is saying, “She too mad, but she right tho.” Which isn’t the worst.

On the whole, I’ve enjoyed the Night Warrior transformation as presented thus far. It gives me a character to root for, a character to align with, which is good for a story. However, as I’ve said before, that’s contingent on a lot.

So far, it hasn’t accomplished that much. We saw her kill Nathanos with it, but… As others said, we already expected her to outclass Nathanos, so… There wasn’t a power-gain. She’s killed hundreds of nameless Maw goons, but so has the average adventurer on any give day. There’s not really anything we can point to with certainty “she was only able to accomplish this notable feat because she took on the powers of the Night Warrior.” And by big, notable feat, I mean something that meets all of these criteria:

  1. We directly see it. Preferably in a cinematic of Nathanos’s Death quality or higher.
  2. She defeats a well-known, named enemy that was known to be incredibly powerful. (Or something of equal, grandiose stature.)
  3. The enemy is known to be evil.
  4. She defeats this enemy with her Night Warrior powers.

One possibility is that it drives her mad with rage, and she becomes a villain. And uh… :nauseated_face: :face_vomiting: This is probably the worst outcome. So far, her “flaw” is being a headass, and that’s not worth becoming evil over.

The next possibility is she loses the powers of the Night Warrior, or, worse dies. If she does either and doesn’t have that big, notable feat under her belt, then… What was the point? All this blunder for nothing.

The other possibility is that she somehow tames the Night Warrior ritual, and retains most of her empowerment for use later™. The ideal scenario would be her using that in Shadowlands to accomplish a big, notable feat. However, if they just shelved her for future expansions… Well, it’d be annoying, but not that bad.

So… Eight potential outcomes: villainized, depowered, and death (each can come with or without a “big, notable feat”), or control her powers (with a delayed-use or victory). Accomplishing a feat makes each defeat scenario taste less bitter, controlling her powers but not using them would be annoying but fine, and the best option would be controlling her powers and accomplishing something awesome with them. Ultimately “Success” or “Failure” depends on which path we go down.

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Sadly the Night warrior is basically just a writers Mcguffin that they can use to show how vengeance is bad and will literally consume you. Golden has been writing Tyrande this way since warcrimes.

Tyrande and all of the cast of BFA were character assassinated by the terrible writing. Blizzards focus on tropes and spinning a positive message into the story has butchered all characters involved. Everyone from Saurfang to Jaina has been ruined by the poor writing.

We don’t need lessons on why war is bad, or vengeance can consume you or why forgiveness is noble. We are primarily a player base who has grown up with the game, wow isn’t going to bring in the new younger audiences like it once did so they needs to stop writing this game like its for teens who need educating on these facts.

Blizzard needs to stop trying to force these Moral lessons into their story and go back to focusing on just writing a coherent story with believable characters. If they can’t get their writers to do that they need new writers who can.

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The problem with this Godly blessing is that Tyrande has done nothing impactful in the long run with it. Nothing that merits the cause of concern they’re trying to implore. She didn’t reclaim Darkshore on her own. She didn’t save the lost souls in the Maw by herself.

If anything, this blessing is her being angry 24/7 and Shandris can’t help but hold onto the illusion of moon mommy not being moody. Tyrande hasn’t made any explicit problems known to merit the removal of the Night Warrior Blessing. The more I see nothing done with it, the more I just wish they killed Tyrande and let her rest.

EDIT:

I am 100% behind Tyrande and her anger. The Alliance need a character who is done with the selfless altruism thats screwed them over. I like Tyrande on the perspective of wariness when dealing with the Horde. The Night Elves always been the victims of the Horde first. Anduin makes me hate the Alliance because he’s storybook moral good, and too much of that ruins the magic that is a Faction vs. faction conflict.

This isn’t good vs. evil. Its societies pinning for success and the depths they’ll go to achieve their goals. The Alliance needs someone like Tyrande to break down this white-knight morality and bring some tension into the mold.

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It’s… meh. They could’ve just as easily had her be vengeful and angry without the Night Warrior stuff, and the very idea of Tyrande having this super power up ritual at the ready but that it was never even considered or mentioned all the prior times Azeroth was almost blown up or invaded is a borderline retcon.

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considering it isn’t over yet, you can’t call it a success or a failure.

That being said, when Blizzard writes that Tyrande was in the wrong the whole time then it will be a colossal failure.

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Well. It’s better than her characterization in Cataclysm.

“MALFURION, HELP ME!”
“MALFURION, WHERE ARE YOU?!”
“MALFURION, I BROKE A HEEL AND FELL DOWN!”

uuuuuugh I loathed her so much in the End Time dungeons. Whoever wrote those needs to be forcefed three cans of kippers and a bottle of budweiser.

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In all fairness… how the hell do you “power up” a character like Tyrande? She’s already basically a walking demigod, and much like Jaina, has never displayed even a hint of any upward limits to what powers she has or can pull out of thin air.

If you told me that pre-BFA Tyrande could twerk and the sun would explode , I’d believe it. if you told me pre-BFA Tyrande would glare at you and incinerate not just you but every ancestor and descendant of your family throughout all timelines, I would believe it.

She’s a DBZ fanfic, with infinite power… how do you make that “more”?

This is the problem with how Blizzard tries to impress us with characters, by giving them world-shaking superpowers instead of making them uhhhhh interesting characters. There comes a point where adding more power is just self-parody. Start with a boy ninja, end up with blowing up the moon with chi lasers sort of thing.

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