Tyrande as the Night Warrior: Success or Failure?

I honestly think some people forget that the Kaldorei are NOT a hive mind, like say the scourge. They’re people with feelings and different opinions.

It makes perfect sense some are just sick and tired of the war and simply want to go back to whatever home they have and start rebuilding their society/life again.

We saved the souls from the Maw, great, they’re still dead and never coming back to azeroth. It’s time to move on, you know?

7 Likes

Not a hivemind, but there are still cultural morays and folkways. I am also 2nd Gen American with Polish ancestry, and grew up with stories of the Blitzkrieg and holocaust, so I like to think I have a fair idea how people react to things like this. There is no “Wishing for the war to end” Not when said war was an attempt at ethnic cleansing. It’s a fight or die, and if my 90 year old Grandfather’s pure, unbridled hatred of Germans was any indication, that kind of trauma has lasting effects.

I mean…I’m of Irish decent, on both sides of my family, and I know all the stories about how horrible the British treated the Irish, and I mean, you’re not wrong in the sense that some scars never go away, but as a society, they largely moved past it. People grew tired of the fighting, even with all the legitimate gripes.

People do change after a while and constant warfare with the enemy will tire anyone out eventually.

1 Like

Teldrassil happened like less than a year ago in game…

3 Likes

I have been in Belfast, they really havn’t moved past it. There is a dark shadow left in the wake of The Troubles that still lingers there. It is far less violent, put people still are very vocal with pro or anti British or with pro or anti IRA sentiments there.

It is true that people change, but it takes generations, not a matter of a couple years.

2 Likes

Oh, I know The Troubles are a lingering issue there and until a few months ago, people were legit afraid those old wounds were going to open up again.

I guess I was sympathizing with you. I know what its like when your people go through a horrible trauma :gift_heart:

1 Like

<3

In this context, I am mainly just explaining why I do not find it believable that the Kaldorei, especially as a society, would want the War of Thorns to just be swept under the rug and forgotten. On an individual basis, sure, maybe some have that opinion. As a society, I seriously doubt it.

Just about every historical equivalent with can draw from prove that those type of wounds takes generations to heal. Given the long lifespan of elves, it is likely to not heal for thousands of years.

Edit: Just to clarify, this is just another reason why I think the Burning of Teldrassil was a horrible narrative decision. Especially if Blizzard wanted to twist it into a “Breaking the cycle” narrative by the end of the story. Which is just comical at this point.

2 Likes

We paid back with interest by sacrificing the bulk of our power to stop Archimonde. Not to mention the blood we spilled in that last battle.

The same holds true for Malfurion for Reign of Chaos, something few Horde posters ever mention.

When of course we are in a position where we are forced to suspend the usual recreation of trying to kill each other.

1 Like

Wanting to live another day, to go back to your families is not the same as sweeping that history under the rug. You have the unfortunate tendency to collapse all possible viewpoints into one of two opposite extremes when the reality is more of a spectrum between them.

Some as embittered as they are, only see further pressing the issue as suicidal behavior.

2 Likes

I mean, in that sense you’re not wrong. And while those wounds may heal, there is always the threat of someone or something reopening them again.

It’s the whole I forgive you, but don’t think I’ve forgotten. :gift_heart:

1 Like

Since we’re bringing real-life examples, many Americans don’t imagine how absolutely ravaged Europe was by war. Nearly every town has a monument to it. I live next door to a concentration camp memorial.

And yet, you don’t really see it sparking anger. Even the few still living veterans treat it as a “let’s never let this happen again” thing.

I don’t believe nelfs just forgetting the war, but I believe them not wanting to escalate.

7 Likes

And considering the 4th war in warcraft is supposed to be the one with more deaths. Everyone just being tired of war makes sense.

1 Like

You can still want justice and to defeat the enemy and still want the war to end at the same time because you are tired of all the fighting.

Do you think Americans wanted WW2 to keep going on? Heck no. Yet, they soldiered on and continued to fight until Japan and Germany were defeated. Same goes for the other countries fighting in the war and in other wars, too. Some had been fighting for years and years. Yet, as I said, they soldiered on until the war ended.

1 Like

Hell, look at WWI with the christmas truce or the stretches of trenches where everyone was deliberately shooting over the head of their other trench.

1 Like

No, we are simply speaking in two different context. On an individual bases, sure, you are right. But I am talking about social and cultural perspectives.

In a pareto distribution of certain demographics, you can have a majority of people might agree on more than they disagree, but you will have statistically significant disagreements at the extremes of the distribution. That is why, all around the world (emphasized in the US due to the 2 party system), as it relates to politics, you have, more often than not, two sides of every issues. Even though we all know there are more than 2 sides to any issue. That is just where the social dialogue goes.

So it is not believable to me that a small number of Night Elves being tired of fighting is a significant enough margin to shape the social dialogue in any direction, especially since the entirety of the Kaldorei leaderships seems to be in Tyrande’s camp.

Right, but I don’t think genocide is something that should be forgivable, especially since most of the Horde defended Sylvanas’ action immediately following the event. Even the those that eventually rebelled was a small enough number to cause distress and uncertainty in Anduin and Saurfang regarding their chance to retake Ogrimmar.

So far, not a single member of the Horde has expressed remorse for Teldrassil, save for Thrall in the most recent Novel -I Think- I haven’t read it yet. If so, that is a step in the right direction… But Thrall wasn’t there for the War of Thorns, so his remorse is a bit useless, since it is not coming from someone who was actually responsible.

That is quite untrue. The only thing my Grandfather hated more than Fascists’ were Communists. He actually never told me the stories of the war, but my Grandmother did and made me promise to never bring it up to him.

2 Likes

I don’t want to discredit whatever your grandfather feels, but he does not represent all veterans.

Well, mine did. In hindsight, most of them were probably not true, but I remember them none being focused on hatered and trying to teach me hatered.

And what the hell does communism have to do with anything?

1 Like

True, but are you implying ww2 Allied Vets don’t have a seething Hatred for Fascists’, and would not be willing to fight fascist resurgence?

Well, my Grandfather was Polish and saw his country invaded by fascists’ and communists from two fronts, both committing horrific crimes against his people.

Most people have hatered for fascists, vets or not. But the countless war memorials littered across Europe don’t focus on “fascist hate”, they focus on a terrible event that took lives and that should never be repeated.

1 Like

But not before the Third Riche was brought to an end, those complicit with the genocide that took place put on trial, and brought to justice. Not before reparations’ were forced upon the German people, both materially, monetarily, and in the form of free German labor.

And for Poland, they still had to live under an oppressive, communist regime for nearly half a century following the fall of the Third Riche. The same regime that aided the fascists’ conquer their country.

Despite all those memorials, the same horrific acts reminiscent of the German death camps continued in Eastern Europe, Siberia, in China, Vietnam and Cambodia. For Decades.

Maybe the allies should have been a little more hateful. Or at the very least, not be hypocritical with sentiments like “We should never let this happen again” as it continued for decades.

And all it cost was just around 26 million soviet lives, not counting the allied nations casualties. Had my grandfather been alive, I’m sure in case of a World War he would want me to live.