I mean, we could just as easily reverse this and say: it’s just a video game, why do you need to decimate an enemy faction made of pixels and code? Why do you need to feel competent? What makes chasing competency a better fantasy than chasing morality?
The point of storytelling is that it is an illusion which the audience agrees to fall for under certain constraints and i don’t see much point in suggesting getting joy from one part or another is better as long as your overall relationship with the literature is healthy.
Because Blizzard has basically written as you either get to look incompetent, get decimated, but have the moral high ground OR you get to be the one who kicks butt, but losses any moral standing, and look like a formidable foe (you also get to just get away with anything you commit with a slap on the wrist).
I understand that point of view but do not share it. The WC3 Model of the story, which is aped endlessly in WoW, is that AvH is pointless and a distraction from what really matters. When I was on Horde I felt like both my moral standing and my competency were being shattered because I kept blindly deciding to back up dictators until the inevitable questlines where we’re allowed to rebel, all the while 100 things still want to eat Azeroth.
I derive no meaning from the outcome of fights because Blizzard has never shown any ability or interest in actually writing military fiction where logistics and strategy matter. Everything is decided by what feels good in the moment.
I’m contributing to thread derail, sorry. Will attempt to rerail shortly.
The war was already over by that point. She knew it and so did Saurfang. Tyrande wanted to jump in and fight since the moment she recieved the news about the attack but the sheer influx of kaldorei at Stormwind forced her to stay and fulfill her duties as High Priestess. Her people begged her to stay and so she had no other choice and she was torn by that.
She is a strategist so she knows when to retreat and in that moment there was not much she could do. Both Tyrande and Malfurion knew the war was lost since the begining and it was only a matter of how many they could save before there was nothing left to be done. Also Malfurion is basically their strongest weapon as shown during WoT so risking everything to save him is understandable (bonus point she could save her husband) but Malfurion’s importance as both Warrior and Leader was worth the effort. Remember that she left Malfurion to die at the hands of Xavius to go defend the Temple of Elune in Val’sharah.
Sadly Tyrande is one of Blizzard’s favorite characters to be used as a plot device and she was suffer a lot because of it.
They don’t. That’s why every “how should the horde pay” discussion devolves into a bunch of blue-border lunatics whipping themselves into a froth and demanding that players get their horde characters deleted or other nonsense like that.
100% guarantee that if Blizzard did exactly what Dardillien said, and made a questlien about hunting down key figures in Sylvanas’ efforts, Dardillien himself would be first in line proclaiming it to not be good enough, and demanding more, more, more.
You flatter yourself by thinking these guys think that you should have fun in this game.
People on both sides generalize and say stupid things. A lot. Which faction you chose in WoW does not determine if you’re a good person or if you have good arguments.
LOL nice try, but no. Like I said, if Blizzard made a bunch of named NPCs that were hunted down in a scenario by the Night Elves and Worgen, and have it explicitly state they were/are Sylvanas loyalists and were active members who took part in the Burning of Teldrassil. That would go along way in helping get retribution for what was done. It appeases Alliance players without hurting Horde players.
Ya most of us signed up to play the morally grey outcast that is just trying to find a place in the world. Someone who is far from perfect but still try’s everyday to make things work and do what they can to survive. Most of us wanted to play someone who we could relate to, none of us are perfect and we saw the Horde as a home for us.
A lot of Horde fans weren’t a huge fan of the Garrosh story arc, but after MoP I learned to live with it and it didn’t bother me that much. The Horde was in a good place with Vol’Jin in charge, probably the closest it ever was since Warcraft 3. Things looked good for the faction as a whole, we were moving on from the civil war and all the negatives it brought with it. WoD wasn’t the best expansion but atleast I didn’t have to worry about my Warchief doing something stupid.
Then everything changed when Blizzard decided to do what they do. Take a big fat dump on the story. Dead anime boobs sell so Sylvanas got built up and jammed down everyone’s throat. Vol’Jin and his entire story arc and build up got cast aside like he was nothing. Nathanos became an arrogant insufferable dbag. Along with so many other Horde leaders just becoming useless.
Then the culmination of the dump Blizzard was taking, Teldrassil and BfA. MoP 2.0 but 100x worse (I liked MoP). We see the faction that was almost back to its roots and back to the outcast morally grey vibe turn into the bloodthirsty dumb faction Blizzard seems to love to write. We see the entire faction blindly follow a dumb Warchief with nothing on their mind but kill for a second time. We see beloved historic Horde legends like Saurfang get their story trashed. BfA is potentially the most damaging thing to WoW in its history.
It’s just sad and depressing at the end of the day.
It’s weird how I remember maybe a week or 2 ago calling you out in a post where you called all horde posters scum.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I think it should work. have the alliance player (and sure, let’s make it Alliance-only, I’m down) play the role of an Azerothian Simon Wiesenthal, hunting down Sylvanist figures and either assassinating them or dragging them to a judgement of Kal’Dorei in chains. hell, let it end up with Gallywix as the “final boss” of this quest chain.
I think that would be great, and it sounds like a story that would really happen. A story that SHOULD happen.
I just don’t believe you would accept it. It won’t be “enough,” because even right now, this very post, you’ve changed from "This would make things better’ to “this would help.”
What are you talking about? You are literally arguing for arguing sake. “This would make things better” is the exact same thing as “make things better”… so I am confused.
Right now the Alliance/Night Elves get nothing. The Horde (the faction not player) gets away with genocide and their big punishment is a slap on the wrist with Anduin saying they are good people who can change. Like wow that’s so much fun as an Alliance player.
The scenario I suggested would be a good way to help get retribution for what happened without it straight up punishing the Horde player. That’s the point. Obviously Tyrande dealt with Nathanos, and Sylvanas/the Jailer are next, that on top of the scenario I just stated would be enough to make up for Teldrassil.
There’s a bit of cognitive dissonance when Horde players proclaim they don’t wish to be punished for their faction’s actions but simultaneously get angry at Night Elf/Alliance players who want some form of believable restitution and retribution.
You can have him, I don’t give a crap about him or Goblins as an Alliance; the worst thing he did was injure Mekkatorque and that happens when you start a siege.
My Horde also don’t give a crap about Goblins but God I hated working with him in the war campaign.
I don’t think war crime hunting will end well with Blizzard writing, and I got most of what I wanted from that with Sylvanas on the run and Nathanos dead. Though I think it was a truly terrible decision to make him a 20% kill for the Night Warrior. I watched dude get killed many times in Classic, Tyrande shouldn’t need a raid to down him, and we shouldn’t have needed Tyrande. One or the other, not both.
