Tyrande and Horde [Night Fae Spoiler]

[Jakkalu-draenor]

@Vanardris-bladefist

Retcon Vol’Jin dying and then all of BfA, I’m asking for a lot here but it’s the only chance we got. Also need to find the writer who grew the mega hard on for Sylvanas and lock him in a deep dark hole in the ground. I know it won’t happen just simply pointing out how deep we are and that there isn’t much that can be do to fix the situation.

Or have a bronze dragonflight/timeline skullduggery expansion and pull a Days of Future Past at the end

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Micâh-moon-guard

What would you do that would allow the horde to least move to a place of The majority of the horde isn’t to blame story wise and amongst the extremists of the alliance playerbase?

Soft retcon the Horde’s lack of response to Teldrassil, and the “surprise” of Sylvanas betraying us.

If you dug deep there were signs that the reason the Horde took so long to turn on her is they were afraid of weakening themselves to the Alliance reprisal enough to oust her. Its there, buried in occasional comments by Voss, Garona, and Lor’themar. Fear of the alternative. Which is an avenue I truly believe was considered by the writers, but they changed their minds when they got the blowback for MoP2.0. That and … they wanted the Sylvie reveal to be a surprise!!!

The only way to dilute culpability for the Horde is to make it very clear that they were merely a hapless tools in a Genocidal act and the fallout of it. One which was used as a form of entrapment. It also would make a lot of Sylvanas’ tactics, Anduin’s tactics, Baine’s motivations, and the Horde’s delay make way, WAY more sense. Then move on from this by having Thrall and Baine play a pivotal role in getting Tyrande Sylvanas. Complete Thrall’s oath in some tangible form.

[Vanardris-bladefist]

@Jakkalu-draenor

Or have a bronze dragonflight/timeline skullduggery expansion and pull a Days of Future Past at the end

We could all just wake up from a dream at the end of Shadowlands and it still be pre Legion times. World of Warcraft Wizard of Oz.

[Morghel-daggerspine]

@Dakore-wyrmrest-accord

Sure they can. Anyone would be angry if their homes and livelihoods got put to the torch no matter the reason behind it. It’s true they became military targets by supporting Horde with supply running but it’s still situation of “They’re burning our stuff!”

They can be angry. But vulpera players can’t. Not without looking extremely petty, with meta knowlege in mind.

@Droité-black-dragonflight

The only way to dilute culpability for the Horde is to make it very clear that they were merely a hapless tools in a Genocidal act and the fallout of it.

Still gonna require more than just “we’re sorry” to put the burning behind us.

[Sevenbit-gnomeregan]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

Or when the Alliance attacked Horde civilians in SIlithus, for mining a resource the Alliance had no claim over?

How is this lie still spreading. They murdered the Alliance people who were already there when they began their work, THEN the Alliance came in and hit them back. This is canon.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Sevenbit-gnomeregan

They murdered the Alliance people who were already there when they began their work, THEN the Alliance came in and hit them back. This is canon.

BtS actually makes the timeline of these events absurdly murky, since we know from that book WHY the Bilgewater attacked the Explorers League. It was to kidnap Sapphretta to ensure Grizzek would work for Wix. Which, god I hate that those two only exist to give the Alliance a cheap excuse to slaughter Bilgewater civilians. That is the canon reason that happened …

And when you realize that means that the 7.3.5 Alliance attack happened before that book, and that the Bilgewater already had mining operations in Silithus before Gizzek was even approached. No, the Alliance seems to have attacked the Horde first.

[Sevenbit-gnomeregan]

No, that’s not the timeline we were given. You’re literally jumping through hoops to make it fit your more desired timeline.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

Then what was the reason for the Bilgewater’s attack on the Explorers League? Seriously? Because if it wasn’t Sapph, then its literally just Blizz doing what they always do. Horde races are evil by default, and do evil crap for no reason. Which … thank god noone looks deeper into the subtext of having all the non-European based cultures huddled together into the Evil Faction.

[Morghel-daggerspine]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

Then what was the reason for the Bilgewater’s attack on the Explorers League?

…Because they wanted the azerite? Goblins aren’t exactly the most scrupulous of races. That certainly isn’t a new thing.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Morghel-daggerspine

That certainly isn’t a new thing.

So they attacked the League … for no reason (because the League wasn’t trying to stop them or settup mining operations)? Then they attacked them again after the Alliance hit them, at a completely separate instance, to kidnap Sapphretta? Largely because they’re Goblins, and Goblins are “just that way”.

[Karserd-ragnaros (Karserd)]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

So they attacked the League … for no reason (because the League wasn’t trying to stop them or settup mining operations)? Then they attacked them again after the Alliance hit them, at a completely separate instance to kidnap Sapphretta? Largely because they’re Goblins, and Goblins are “just that way”.

Gallywix knew the value of azerite droite.

im trying to be objective here since “mining the lifeblood of the planet while its bleeding to death” its… evil.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Karserd-ragnaros

Gallywix knew the value of azerite droite.

He did, which is why the Goblins were setting up mining equipment even before Magni showed up in TB. Even before Gallywix ordered the abduction of Sapphretta. The Bilgewater were already there by the 7.3.5 Cutscene. They had little reason to attack the Explorers League, if the League was not getting in the way. Which we see no indication that they were.

God, its truly disturbing how Blizz has written “Race” to be analogous" to “Morality” and “Virtue”.

[Vanardris-bladefist]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

Largely because they’re Goblins, and Goblins are “just that way”.

Replace “Goblins” with any race from the Horde and you have blizzards reasoning behind everything the horde has done pretty much since Cata.

Sad…sad but true.

[Sevenbit-gnomeregan]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

God, its truly disturbing how Blizz has written “Race” to be analogous" to “Morality” and “Virtue”.

I agree it is. But unfortunately that is the situation we are in. In canon the Horde and goblins attacked first. It was for a dumb reason yes, but it’s canon. It happened.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Sevenbit-gnomeregan

It was for a dumb reason yes, but it’s canon. it happened.

And the reason was “give the Alliance a justification”. Its always that way. Blizz is so committed to upkeeping this artificial purity test for the Blues. They can’t have flaws, or make mistakes, and aggression isn’t a virtue so they can’t have it. No wonder the only virtue a member of a Horde race can have is how Pro Alliance they are.

[Talendras-moon-guard]

I think the least they could have done was have the vitriol only shown if Horde playere talk to Tyrande specifically, basically make it like how Death Knight players get cutting words thrown to them if they choose to talk to Argent NPC’s during the pre-patch event. (Something I didn’t do since I didn’t know they had uniqie dialogue for DK’s which I thought was cool since I don’t like the Argents forgiving so easily.)

[Faranoth-nordrassil]

Meh, people will always complain, even if it’s the smallest minor thing that inconveniences their self image.

[Dakore-wyrmrest-accord (Dakore)]

@Morghel-daggerspine

They can be angry. But vulpera players can’t. Not without looking extremely petty, with meta knowlege in mind.

Honestly, fans getting mad about any of this seems kind of petty anymore. However, fans are fans and we have our passions and our prejudice, so it’s natural that if Alliance sneeze on something Horde or vice versa there’s going to be a gripe.

[Sinoa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Jenakira-argent-dawn

But, in order for you, the Cherished Alliance Player, to feel righteous about murdering a bunch of vulpera, hey suddenly I guess they have a thriving arms industry now, sure, why not.

Sorry sweety, this is gonna be one of those things I declare personal retcon on, because it’s so massively and insufferably dumb.

I quite like you.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

I adore how sassy they are at times