Tyrande and Horde [Night Fae Spoiler]

Lore Story Forum
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I’ve been saying this since Sylvanas tried to “kill hope”.

Legion Sylvanas was absolutely shady, no denying that. But when Vol’jin made her warchief because the loa told him to (lol, gotcha, no they di’int), that whole cinematic portrays a character who is thrust into a position she never expected to have, and might have been reluctant to even take. Even when she’s standing in the throne room for what must have been hours, unmoving as people go about around her, eyes locked on the throne. And then when she finally speaks, she’s not rallying the Horde to serve her. She’s rallying them to fight the dang Legion. It’s cinematography meant to show her not as a scheming manipulator, but as a character who just got thrust with a new responsibility, stunned at what has happened, then rising to meet the challenge. It’s supposed to be an uplifting moment. She stood on the precipice of, as Vol’jin said, “stepping out of the shadows to lead”.

EXCEPT NOPE LOL SHE GOES FURTHER IN AND ULTRADARK AT THAT ROFLMAO!!!

Excepting the pursuit of Eyir, it really looked like they were going for a character rehabilitation with her. Then someone thought “hey, imagine how cool the desktop wallpaper would be of her standing in front of the burning tree!”

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265

I kind of wish we could sabotage her. I’m so tired of being spoken down to.

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266

He agreed with Sylvnas and gave his ok to the war.

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I would have liked it better if the Purge of Dalaran had really been the Purge and not blizzard saying later: “Just a bug”.

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A trend that I have not liked since MoP.

It went from “you’re all monsters and should be put down” to “you’re our heroes” to “you’re all a bunch of monsters because of your Warchief(s), but you’re forced to work with us” to “you’re monsters, but we have to work together AGAIN against some hentei monster” that didn’t do anything of notice to “you’re heroes and our last hope, but don’t forget about what happened”.

It’s tiring. Like, you either throw the entire faction away or just, ya know, stop with these now irrelevant faction wars that’s just a worn out concept for the game? You can’t even say the Horde is the only ones complaining because the Alliance is just there to be reactionaries who’s major victories are told off screen or in dev interviews and even if it is in game it’s in some brief dialog.

It really does a number on your sanity when you think about it. Now the only appeal to playing these factions is just “how does these races look with this gear”. Without Varian in the Alliance and someone forced on us in his place that’s less interesting it’s just doesn’t make me feel motivated to even be Alliance. Let’s hope Turalyon brings that same fire to the table that Varian once did. Anduin isn’t it.

And then there’s the Horde… going from monsters to heroes on rotation is exhausting and not a fun experience at all. I’d rather see the entirety of the Horde be wiped off the face of Azeroth if that means we can move away from this.

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The most ridiculous thing that I’ve ever had to witness in my time playing WoW (other than bfa itself).

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Cold war was the route to go, they blew it putting teldrassil to the torch.

You have more hope than i do, the lore and several characters were put to the torch with bfa (in both factions) and they can never fix that mistake, you cant “unscrew the pooch”.

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They blew it well before then. They blew it in Cataclysm when they decided heating up the old cold war was a good idea, and they implemented this good idea by having Garrosh run roughshod over Kalimdor and Sylvanas over her corner of the EK. Once they did that, ambiguity was gone. The conquerors using biological weapons don’t tend to be viewed in a heroic light. Once they decided one side had to be the bad guy, and they had to commit some unspeakable crimes, any idea of a cold war ended. It had to be peace or total war, nothing else, because you’ve already seen how bad it gets when the Horde’s just starting to build up.

Teldrassil was just the latest misstep in Blizzard’s constant escalation spiral.

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272

Just don’t take it too personal, we are being told a story in first person, we have no choice, this is like a book stop victimizing yourselves, that’s how tyrande feels about a horde that in lore is not you.

in lore the champion is not the same savior in every quest, maybe such champion don’t even exist in lore.

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Even after all those screw ups i was willing to suspend my disbelief for a little while, trying to enjoy the story for what it is, like when you go to a fastfood joint to get your fill and thats it… after teldrassil i cant even do that, worst of all is that there is too much baggage from last expansion that HAS to be adressed, it cant be handwaved like blizzard did on the past, i know it will get adressed down the line but it will be completely unsatisfying and too late, like stale fries that caught humidity and arent as tasty anymore.

i think im hungry.

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274

I think Skaven SUCK.

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275

How can the Vulpera ask when the first interaction with the Alliance is them setting the Vulpera’s homes on fire like the hypocrites they are?

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Obviously worst case scenarios exist in all situations, the shopkeep probably didn’t deserve, maybe he was just being extra unco-operative and whoever fed him to the sharks just couldn’t be f’d that day.

Hard disagree, this wasn’t just about being betrayed in her own city. This was about the fact her city was possibly infiltrated by a traitorous element aligned with a faction seeking her people’s destruction. She had every right to act this way.

And the ones who were resisting arrest, the ones she arrested cannot be considered to be ‘attacked’. She was leader of Dalaran, she tolerated the Blood Elves being there despite being allied with the Horde which was at that point basically just another Legion and they betrayed her, they made their bed and now they got to sleep in it.

Lol you can’t pick and choose, can Night Elves honor queen Azshara because she was good looking?

People who think the purge of Dalaran was this massive Stratholme level slaughter are out of their mind, the canon death count isn’t even in the double digits.

I was referring to the Orc internment camps with that comment

Yeah no crap you’d like it better for Jaina to be completely unjustified instead of completely justified like she is now.

They could have asked the Horde why they are at war with the Alliance and if they are at fault, then two possibilities would arise.

  1. The Horde would lie and say the Alliance are the ones trying to exterminate them(which is what I’m guessing would happen) so they have no-one to blame but the Horde for what happened.

  2. They get told the truth and STILL help the Horde so they deserve whatever punishment they get.

Just because the Horde helped them doesn’t mean they have to involve themselves in their war.

All instances of ‘people’ being burned never made it to live.

What kind of backwards a** planet do you live on and how are you using Earth internet?

If you wanna get involved in someone else’s war, whatever you do you, just don’t complain and blame the other side for them attacking you.

Umm ask the Horde? Hello?

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Imagine if this was a horde posters excuse for killing someone innocent, :joy: I swear if you’re on the alliance even the negative things that happen turn out to be positives that were ok.

“He’s being uncooperative, let’s feed him to a shark.”

Most people throughout history don’t just stand there and do nothing when they are being forcefully (emphasis on the force) removed from their homes for no reason. Doubt you would either.

Dalaran serves as a somewhat committee like democracy not a dictatorship

Well duh, that would make the alliance look grey or potentially darker. Can’t have that.

Was the first interaction they had with the horde supposed to be
“Thanks for helping us but you must pass our test before we join you. Have you burned any trees lately?”

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278

ok lets do this exercise then since you’re conveniently focusing on half the issue.

Imagine you are jaina, you got traitors in the sunreavers with proof Fanlyr Silverthorn used sun reaver assets for the war effort, there is a war going on and their faction leader denies everything even if you confront him, last time another blood elf sun reaver, Thalen Songweaver betrayed the kirin tor, many people died.

Thalen was confirmed a spy garrosh placed, he participated on the creation of the mana bomb, i dont think i need to tell you that it makes him guilty of the death of several kirin tor members.

Also there is a war out there people are dying left and right and these people are using the neutrality of your city to get an advantage over the other case in example, the divine bell and the previous mana bomb.

Bear in mind there is no time to lose because they could screw dalaran up in their way out, you cant trust these people and you dont have time to double check everything.

what would you do if you were jaina?

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Feel like a US president had similar thoughts on a small group of people during WW2 and it’s agreed that it’s probably the biggest mistake of his career. I know we try not to use real life references but the way you explained it sounded very very familiar.

Jaina could have easily taken care of the issue with much less violence, she let the foaming at the mouth Silver Covenant loose and didn’t really care what happened. The blood elves fought back because they had no idea what was going on and all of a sudden they were being forcefully removed from their homes and attacked. What would you do? Sit there and just let them potentially feed you to a shark?

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280

If an Alliance race lived in what was essentially a Horde ‘neutral’ city, had that same race betray them twice after the Alliance annihilated that neutral city leader’s previous home and everyone they knew and cared about, then refused to either leave immediately or be locked down so they couldn’t either steal from or sabotage the city? If the factions were reversed I guarantee the Horde posters would be saying, “Ofcourse they deserved what they got”.

Well the thing with hypotheticals like that is I’d have to have so many things about my personality and background changed that I wouldn’t even be the same person. Like I wouldn’t be apart of a faction that wanted to exterminate and commit genocide on another, then live in what is essentially their city.

Up until the point the Sunreavers clearly didn’t give a rats a** about playing fair.

No it would make them look downright psychopathic and above all completely weak and impotent, especially since Blizzard would spin it as some sort of ‘catharsis’ for those upset about the burning of Teldrasill. “Hey, we know you want revenge against Sylvanas and those apart of the Horde during the burning of Teldrasill, but they are untouchable so go exterminate these nomad foxes”

I think asking, “Why are you at war with them in the first place, oh by the way if you lie to us because it’s basically all your fault we’ll tell you sod off at best and join your clearly in the morally right enemy at worst” is the appropriate question to ask anyone who wants you to get involved in their war.

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so you make a comment about a us president then sidestep the question, then try to flip it on me?

“she couldve done better” is not an answer is it?

ill take it as you really have no idea what to do in that situation, jaina did what she thought was right considering all those variables thats all, the result had lots of collateral even on the politics spectrum, talks with silvermoon dissolved because of that but she really didnt had any choice.

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Did you read my second paragraph at all? Stating how she did nothing at all from letting violence consume the entire city? Hell she more or less endorsed it. So one guy wrongs her so she let loose an entire faction of High Elves who wanted nothing more than to bring harm to the Sunreavers loose. She is Jaina she is on god tier level she could have done better, the whole thing could have been far less violent but she chose to turn a blind eye to the violence.

One guy wrongs you blame the entire faction/race. Humans are evil racists, see Garithos.

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i already laid out the entire situation and you only make a comment on how jaina is bad because she has so much power and how she couldve done so much more ignoring how the narrative presents the choice she had to make, you didnt answered my question neither.

Also i see you havent read my entire post, we got several sunreavers acting traitorus and you frame it as “only one guy” whereas this is the second time this crap happens, the first time several kirin tor mages died, its not as simple as you paint it.

since you havent answered my questions and keep framing the situation without considering all the facts i wont bother answering you again.

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