Real pvp’ers moved on to other games years ago. Sorry bud 
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You can play more than 1 game, genius
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The inspiration for me making this post actually came while I was playing as tank. I also heal on this toon (and dps)
Yeah, I’ve soft-quit at this point. I’ll tell you what I do enjoy: the crafting system.
M+ can be fun, but since it is basically the be-all end-all of this game we’re kinda trapped.
If I want to use the shiny gear that I craft it’s basically M+. Raid is only a few hours a week.
Once I’m pushing keys above 22 or so then I don’t expect anyone to stay after even a single wipe. I only leave when people are rude, or maybe if there is an extreme circumstance.
Well that’s a fancy way of calling someone a lair. It is my own personal experience. When I do other activities there isn’t a metric crapton of waiting around only to have a disappointing run. This particular morning I did it 3x in a row.
The game needs content similar to group content but is group-optional. Sure, it’s an MMO and we’re meant to play together but sometimes part of the beauty of being in a world is spending time by one’s self.
Funny
For instance, if I sit down to watch a movie maybe it takes me a few minutes to pick one but I can immediately start enjoying it.
If I pick up another online game I’ve spent years playing that you haven’t heard of, I can start whacking mobs right away.
If I pick up cities skylines I can start being creative right away.
If I log into wow it’s going to be 30 minutes of job applications, then 50/50 people don’t know what they’re doing and the run ends. 25% chance someone is also rude to someone else in the group. By the end of the experience I’m frowning and sometimes cursing
We really have no other option than M+ to progress in this game after a few hours of raid. If you can full-clear the raid that takes what, 2 hours? Then those bosses won’t drop loot anymore.
The only option from there, to progress, is M+. (I am only talking about PVE content here. PVP is probably a lot better)
It seems like classic has done a great job of escaping the treadmill. But they have huge advantages like a lack of seasons, and multiple raids that drop relevant
gear.
I have been trying to form a team for two years. TWO YEARS! It’s not about being happy to just slack and not wanting to put in the effort. It’s about the effort being fruitless.
I joined one CE guild but we didn’t get CE, and the racist jokes made me feel weird so I left. And there I was the top M+ person still. I put together an MDI team and couldn’t get us all to show up at the same time. We literally never all did a key together.
“Go make some friends” works a lot better in the real world than WoW.
Sounds like you should learn how to read because I’ve already said I’m spending most o my time doing other activities.
But it’s sad. By all accounts this should be a game I enjoy. It is right up my alley. Yet there are so many issues, and I’m not the only one.
I wish battlegrounds and epic battlegrounds awarded gear like M+ for winning. I would really enjoy that.
Having to find a rated group is what stops me from doing PvP. It just feels worse than finding a M+ group and I’m less attached to the content.
Right. And the ones that care about quality pvp play other games. But hey, have fun rerolling new meme comps every season!
WoW is in an amazing spot. I play a couple MOBAs at the Masters level. Theres no such thing as perfect balance, this isnt Thanos, its video games.
While true, there aren’t enough reoccurring reasons to damage a good players score. We all have an occasional real life thing that pulls us from the game.
This would target players that don’t respect 4 others time by constantly leaving on the first wipe. The entire point of keys is to finish the run for the vault reward, which you receive even if the key isn’t timed.
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Unless they change the whole io system it wouldn’t work anyway, like where would that io come from?
You can’t get io “back” because you get it from completing a key at a level
And people would feel held hostage by such a punishment, sometimes a key is going nowhere and you just need to leave.
Like, if the key is going to take 2x the timer, i ain’t sticking around.
But again, I know it happens, it’s happened to me. But it’s not that often and those that need the help may have gotten it from completing the run.
I just don’t think we should be punished at all for leaving.
There’s ways to prevent that type of thing, I’m in a community that punishes things like rage quitting.
I could see a system that tracks it being more useful. That way an addon like raiderio can say "this person leaves 10% of keys or this person leaves 70% of keys.
If it’s a really high key, I don’t care. If we wipe it’s over. But if it’s a low key for gearing purposes then that would be useful information to know
I might also show burn out of WoW. Other games probably have same problems at similar high level of content, but because they’re new or fresh compared to WoW doing lower easier content in them seems more worthwhile.
I’d love to see those completion rates for high enders, probably like 50% or less.
After 20 there’s zero point to stay in a key if you won’t time it.
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The thing is above 20 people are so much more coordinated and experienced the runs can actually be a lot easier than the chaos of a 17
Which makes the game even more frustrating because if you aren’t geared and don’t have powerful friends then you’re going to have to slog through many groups of people not doing mechanics.
yea, but at some point when you’re pushing you’re leaving a lot cause of mistakes or bad rng.
I watch a lot of growl, and they do have to leave keys quite often.
Honest question–why is it worse to complete a key but not time it vs just leaving it? Because of how it’s reported on your io score?
Depends on the level of key.
Below 20 if you can get 2 keys done in the time it’s taking you to do that one, you’re just wasting time.
Above 20 you get no score for not timing and people doing above 20 are going for score, not gear
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And now that 20’s are the cap for gear 20’s feel like 15’s did in shadowlands in difficulty. So now there’s a cluster-eff right on that single key level.
I think a vendor system would go so far to fix that particular issue. Kind of like the direction they are headed, and will eventually have to go … just sooner.
Where you can do any activity and get points, then spend those points for deterministic gear and ilvl upgrades. This would free people to do the activities they like while still progressing.
But instead Blizzard has to shoe-horn people into content they don’t enjoy if they want a feeling of progression
I don’t understand your meaning here honestly, 20s are def more difficult than 15s in SL, hell even the scaling was increased in DF.
That’s not to say either is omgwtfbbq difficult, just that they’re not equal
It’s the amount of damage we do. The new talent system was basically a huge upgrade for everyone and they didn’t dial the difficulty up enough to keep the keys in the same place.
The way things scale now, with 20+'s going up by 10% in difficulty is that everything is super easy until you hit 20. Then by 24 it is quite challenging in comparison. But levels 1-19 are basically all the same imo.
Back in shadowlands first season I remember an 18 being kinda challenging and feeling like there was a bit of a dps check early in the season. Now we have casuals timing 20’s.
I donno I could be wrong but I almost think the 20’s these days are easier than the early shadowlands 15’s
SL season 1 was just a pain overall, hard to compare anything to it, tanks couldn’t even tank, they just kited
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