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I have 16 monk toons. I prefer to heal and Essence is my favorite spell. Bring it back, put it in base monk kit. have it do damage to enemies for brewmaster and wind walker and heal allies for mist weaver. It’s Super Buu’s Human Extinction Attack COME ON!
Class Talents
Tier 1
Paralysis: should be a base class spell. Put Fortifying Brew here
Tier 2
Fast Feet: raw damage talents are boring and do not bring anything to the class. This would be more interesting giving rising sun kick an additional charge or increase the size of the next spinning crane kick
Tier 3
Bounding Agility: how much is a small distance? This is really terrible. Why not move celerity/chi torpedo here
Tier 4
Ancient Arts: needs to be 1 talent point.
Pressure Points: seems like this should be baked into Paralysis
Tier 5
Celerity/Chi Torpedo: i want both. it should be higher in the tree as important as it is.
Energy Transfer: this is a PVP talent, put it in the pvp section.
Transcendence: this should be a base monk spell. Move one of the other talents to here. Escape from Reality/Linked Spirits
Tier 6
Invoke Niuzao, the Black Ox: this is so bad if it remain as is it shouldn’t have a cooldown but have a chance to be triggered by Blackout Kick.
Tier 7
Walk with the Ox: even combining this with the previous talent both are still bad. this should allow a second Ox to be summoned.
Tier 8
Improved Invoke Niuzao, the Black Ox:
Tier 9
Bounce Back: Does this include the attack that triggered the ability?
Tier 10
Lighter than Air:
Why is this attached to roll? Why not when we jump?
Where is the second jump before the dash?
If this is to put us on par with Demon Hunters and Drakthyr its doing a poor job as those both have 2 jumps and a slow fall glide. Why not let us have the same mechanic without the glide part.
Rushing Reflexing/ Clash: I want both.
Non-Talent Monk Spells
Crackling Jade Lightning: needs more talents, would like to be able to move while casting this spell
Essence Font: Best Healing Spell, Needs to return:
Sounds like Fireworks: love this
Looks like Fireworks: double love this
Can channel while moving: triple love this
Puts a HoT on the Targets
Smart Targets
Whirling Dragon Punch: I’d like this spell to be in the class talents tree/ this is our “Ryu/Ken Dragon Punch”
Spinning Fire Bloom: this spell needs to return.
Zen Flight: needs to be the same speed as all mounts, how about a talent to add feather fall to it. This is suppose to be our “Goku riding Nimbus”
Okay but then that’s not essence font, that’s just some randomly procced damage like the new rushing jade wind.
If you propose the return of an ability, without more context, we’re going to assume you just want the raw return and it would be a button pushed by WW/brewmaster costing energy or chi.
Edit: I’ll also add that it being procced passively is just sort of boring damage, and not really exciting. And I prefer not to have talent points allocated to it as well.
I understand that the Windwalker needs some love. it’s kit is bloated, and we just basically waiting for cooldowns to refresh.
This is the time to be bold and experimental and propose NEW ideas and functions not to cling to a style of clunky class that’s been the exact same sense MoP.
So far these are small changes. Years of the same stagnant class will make any change seem like gold.
to be clear this is not a class rework.
they moved some talents around and made the trees a bit more clean.
these bandaids will not fix the many cluncky mechanics that are the root of class problems.
Moving “Sky Reach” to class talents and attaching it to “Roll” instead of “Tigers palm” is even messier than before.
being a melee class without stuns means we are reliant on “Short Range” cones, circles, and line attacks. there is a huge reason why everyone likes “faeline stomp”. it helps with a huge problem with the class. it does hurt that it looks good to.
all the core identifying monk skills need a similar treatment.
and the statues and invoke celestials are still a major pain.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS THE DEVELOPERS HAVE REQUESTED CLSS FEEDBACK! IT MAY NOT HAPPEN AGAIN IN THE FUTURRE! NOW IS THE TIME TO REQUEST CHANGES AND BIG ONES! not to roll over and except a few belly rubs.
So we’re willingly just ignoring that they also added new talents that feel insane. WDP, and its capstones, are incredible,
This line makes me think you’re actually trolling. Monks have amongst the best disruption in M+, and leg sweep is a stun. The F is this statement even lol.
You’re literally the definition of you’ll never be happy. And you’re also literally the first person I’ve seen not satisfied with the rework.
In fact, screw it. It’s not even opinion. It’s just good.
If Essence Font is to come back, let it be MW only. Regarding WW, it is evident Blizz does not want us to AoE. They nerfed MotC’s buff by more than 60%, mark capped it, then AoE capped SCK. They also nerfed FoF’s cleave by 40% then AoE capped that as well. And then they dumped DoCJ on us. Simply put, our AoE bread and butter got neutered twice, and our actual AoE damage was moved to RNG bullcrap (with a little more control going into TWW).
While the main monk tree leaves much to be desired, it’d be better for monk as a whole to shuffle and condense common talents from the spec trees onto the main class tree. Stuff like SBT, RJW, DoCJ, and Invoker’s Delight should have their home on the main class tree. Doing so would save some much needed talent points on the spec trees.
Let’s be clear, what Blizz did with WW is not a rework. WoD → Legion WW changes is what a rework looks like. What we have with the TWW changes is long overdue maintenance with a reception and efficacy that is a mixed bag at best.
They cut a lot of crap and bloat (though there is still some left) from the tree which is good, but they replaced it with what feels like are going to borderline mandatory picks and exacerbated that by messing with our resource generation (for the third time) to solve the “problem” of GCD capping. However, they don’t even solve GCD capping because most of GCD capping is during our burst, so basically Blizz just gave us more downtime.
It’s by definition a rework. If it’s not one you’re happy with, that’s fine, but it’s a rework. And one that (thank god) is received very well by 90% of the playerbase.
Anyone not happy with it are likely just those that never are.
The changes to the talent tree are substantial and some of the new additions are welcome to be sure. However, WW will play pretty close to how it does now, but there are now significantly more questions and things to worry about behind the scenes.
You’re the same doomer who shows up once a year to argue with everyone that WW should be the strongest melee in the game to exceed being overpowered. You’ve shown what your opinions are worth. Doubt indeed.
Yea because I’ve played WW since MoP and have seen WW consistently get nerfed and have its strength diluted through odd changes and bad trades in development. Can you imagine how strong WW would actually be if it was developed with the loose regulation other classes have? WW becoming the strongest melee in the game would be a likely result.
Also, out of curiosity, what specifically have I said do you disagree with? Because I’ve said a lot over the years, and I’d like to think time has tempered some of my statements.
The pruning of the ridiculous button bloat. The integration of RJW into SOTWL is great, the integration of expel is great. We don’t have the abhorrent statues anymore.
People always say “illusion of choice,” but that doesn’t seem to be the case with WW in TWW. WDP actually deals damage, and furthermore has a very fun capstone regardless of which of the two you choose.
All of this to say, that the expansion is not out yet. But based on my own experience in beta, and the plethora of feedback from the monk community, it’s pretty safe to say they’re extremely fun and solid.
I don’t want to invoke YouTube “tier lists,” because those are often cringe as hell and mean little. However, just citing those as another (albeit not as important) source, nearly every single one based on fun and performance has windwalker in S tier.
And again, I know, “lol tier lists.” But I’m just using that as another of several examples that the community overall is very satisfied.
Bar the integration of expel, I like these things too. However, and this is probably just me being a perfectionist/nitpicking, I feel like the job is half done in some of these cases.
It’s cool that RJW got integrated into SotWL, BUT why (after all these years) does it still not benefit from MotC and why don’t we pull RJW from all the spec trees and stick it onto the main tree to save a point? It’s the same case with the statue. Cool we don’t have to hit the button anymore, but why does the talent point still exist when the same effect could be accomplished by just slapping a damage aura on our celestial summons?
I don’t doubt that WW will perform come TWW. The WW playerbase always makes it work. But my issue is that there are some very grating questions/issues left unresolved that we will have to juggle in addition to (imo) a lot of unfinished changes like from above. And it feels unsatisfying that with a little more optimization and tweaking, we could be all the more powerful.
Can I ask, as I’m often curious and maybe this will help shore things up from the other side of the isle. What is still missing for you? And in the most respectful way possible, please be realistic. By that I mean, every person always has a “perfect” version of the class for them, so if you could try to use broader strokes as we could always design our “flawless” version of our class to us.
But just based on the changes we’re getting, what would you like to see more?
The big thing on my mind right now going into TWW is the resource changes. This is the THIRD time Blizz has nerfed our resources. Why are we doing the SAME thing for the third time when it clearly doesn’t work? WW will still get moments of GCD cap when we’re bursting with the changes. The resource changes just make it so we get more moments of waiting for resources outside of burst. So, in light of all this, why aren’t we trying something different to alleviate the issue? I made a post about this and someone brought up a (imo) very smart and obvious solution that I think is better than what I proposed in my post.
Going into DF, my big gripe was just how disappointing the spec tree for WW is in terms of lost potential. IMO it would have been really impressive/cool if Blizz could split the WW spec tree into two branches that would be the MoP/WoD version of WW and the Legion and onwards version of WW. There are fans of both styles of WW. And potentially in the long term (like expacs down the line long term), players would get enough talent points to fill it out effectively playing both versions of WW at the same time, which would be cool af. Can you imagine old school TeB building with ChiX stacked with Serenity Xuen burst? It would be nuts.
Addressing the resource thing would be nice. TP used to cost 40 energy and EE and Chi Brew used to be things. And now TP is 60 energy.
Apart from that, better optimization of talents would be how I’d sum up more of what I want to see. SBT, RJW, DoCJ, and Invoker’s Delight could be pulled from the spec trees and moved to the main monk tree which would save points on all the spec trees while making monk as a whole stronger across the board. Touch of the Tiger, Fast Feet, Ancient Arts, and Jade Walk don’t need to exist. Inner Peace and Ascension could be fused. There’s more, but I don’t want to drag on more than I already am.
EDIT: Also removing a layer of restriction from our AoE would be nice.