Twinks still a HUGE problem

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

Absolutely. There is a stigma in the GD that seems to think otherwise.

[Rocax-frostwolf]

Made a level 10 Night Elf Hunter, took myself to Elwynn Forest.

Did all the quests in the area, hit level 10 with one white cape. Every other item was greens/blue.

Chest - green
Bracer - green
Gloves - green
Belt - green
Legs - blue
Boots - blue
Weapon - green

Took mining and engineering, mined enough copper just following the quest lines to hit engineering 50 and craft myself a gun, to replace an already green crossbow.

Joined a random AB, won with a 5 cap, matchmaker decided to give horde one healer versus alliance having four. I managed to kill a higher level druid at the mines and then the game ended.

You don’t hit level 10 in full whites without TRYING to do so.

Critical Update!

Since I left off at 10, before having the quest to go to Westfall. I didn’t know that the very first quest where you interrogate hobos would give at least a green cloak.

Level 10 with every item being at least green is practically guaranteed Alliance side. Elwynn —> First quest in Westfall.

[Eilane-kilrogg]

Hey, I thought I told you to get out of this thread with all your logic and facts?!

[Rocax-frostwolf]

Hey, I thought I told you to get out of this thread with all your logic and facts?!

It’s hard to take in, I know, it’s a lot.

[Welfarê-silvermoon]

I actually think it’s the way you are reading my posts. Nothing I said was emotional, derogatory, etc. I’ve been explaining why I think the twinks have been an issue, gave reasons for it, etc.

Actually, some of your posts have been quite inflammatory towards twinks. Let me expound on why I say that. I have been playing this game since beta. I have been twinking since EQ and still actively play it but on the test server since the fiasco of killing the Sleeper on RZ. For 15 years + are you honestly going to say that in all that time I have been crutching on or behind gear and haven’t learned one thing about pvp in all that time?

As I am not going to read back through these threads, all 1300 of them, help me understand what exactly your stance is? I don’t want to hear about the exploiters, I don’t condone that either. You say you like gear progression yet show quite a bit of animosity towards my Gearnetically Enhanced brethren that show their support for it.

So help me understand, just why are you here and continue to post, might I ask?

[Fjall-aggramar]

He’s going to give you the same thing he’s been saying, “I like gear progression, but that gear that twinks have is op.”

I think his stance is, everyone should only gear for endgame content maybe?

Like, don’t enchant, gem, farm, etc etc until you’re at level cap.

That’s the best I can really come up with.
/Shrug

[Grohg-hyjal]

Level 10 with every item being at least green is practically guaranteed Alliance side.

Great summary. Hopefully it’ll help people…there are just as many horribly under-geared players as there are twinks it seems, lol. There really is no excuse to have any whites equipped in any bracket, whether you have access to heirlooms or not.

That’s how they really be sounding like too. All while disregarding that people who pay to play can play the game how they want.

I pay $15 a month for this game. I will play however I want to. No sub 2k players can tell me otherwise lol

Nobody is telling you that you can’t play the game how you want, or that you can’t make and play twinks. You have an entire queue for all of you to enjoy PvP together, with like-minded individuals. Just listen/read and absorb what people are saying, instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling because someone disagrees with you.

That’s the best I can really come up with.

No surprise there.

are you honestly going to say that in all that time I have been crutching on or behind gear and haven’t learned one thing about pvp in all that time?

No, why would I say that? When did I even give you the impression that I would think someone wouldn’t learn and/or get better by playing? Practice makes perfect, yes?

bit of animosity towards my Gearnetically Enhanced brethren that show their support for it.

I’m not sure where you’re picking up on animosity…unless you mean having my own opinion and sharing it. In which case, yea…I’m in an outrage I guess, lol.

So help me understand, just why are you here and continue to post, might I ask?

I think you’re viewing me as the source of this thread or the main proponent against twinks. I’m certainly not, I just have a bad habit of responding to everyone that responds to me. I tend to get into conversations with people that apparently last hundreds of posts. I’ve shared my opinions on the matter, people responded in one way or another, and I’d respond back. That would just continue on, that’s why I ‘continue to post’. I enjoy the conversations when it doesn’t involve the degenerative name calling and whining that some of the people (both sides) have done.

help me understand what exactly your stance is?

My stance, as Fjall attempted to explain but didn’t at all…is as follows…

Progression is necessary to any game. In WoW it’s mostly through gear that a player progresses. You get better gear, you can accomplish tougher challenges, perform better in battlegrounds, etc. Gear progression is the very core to a game like WoW, and it’s what keeps people playing and enjoying the game. I love it, and I think it’s also a crucial part of PvP.

Twinks don’t fit into the typical progression of most players. Every non-twink would level out of the bracket by time they got equivalent gear, or they simple don’t want to waste their time/gold getting it because they will be doing what nearly every other player does, and that’s work toward max level to partake in the end-game content that Blizzard spends their time sculpting. Twinks are a special group of people that go out of their way to take advantage of that.

They claim they’re doing what everyone else can do, which is simply getting better gear. The reality is that every other player, like I just said, will not be getting comparable gear. This is why Blizzard, the developer of our beloved MMO, separated the queues.

People will also argue that the low-level brackets don’t have a huge gap in gear. The response to that is simply…then they aren’t twinks, so it has no relevance in this thread. We all know and agree that twinking in the 111-119 bracket is atrocious. I’ve seen hunters with double the health (and power) of any other player on my team or theirs. The gap in gear is huge, and people are literally getting killed in a single GCD by “godlike” players, and this only happens because they are cheating with the exploit. There is no middle ground, because of exactly what I said…people won’t waste time getting gear to compete against them, because they’ll be 120 by then.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

You say not everyone has the opportunity to get gear but the xp off guy is there for anyone to utilize. Most people have enough heirlooms to equip, and you only have a handful of slots to fill after those.

[Fjall-aggramar]

So summery, don’t worry about gearing until 120.
I feel like I said that. All you did was say it in 3 paragraphs.

You can be as detailed as you want about it, but from the way it sounds no one should try to put forth effort into gear until you’re at the max level of the game.

[Grohg-hyjal]

You say not everyone has the opportunity to get gear but the xp off guy is there for anyone to utilize. Most people have enough heirlooms to equip, and you only have a handful of slots to fill after those.

You missed the key point…people who aren’t going to be twinking aren’t going to turn exp off, gear up, then level out of the bracket and make that gear obsolete. It’s not practical at all.

So summery, don’t worry about gearing until 120.
I feel like I said that. All you did was say it in 3 paragraphs.

As usual, you manage to grossly misconstrue my point. People should put effort into gearing, but they won’t put effort into twink-gearing because those players don’t plan on being twinks. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

I did it though, I didn’t even turn xp off. Just geared from the AH between queues and got enchants, which for heirlooms is a one time deal since they all scale as you level.

[Grohg-hyjal]

I did it though, I didn’t even turn xp off. Just geared from the AH between queues and got enchants, which for heirlooms is a one time deal since they all scale as you level.

So you expect people to waste time/gold every time they hit a new bracket they won’t be in for more than a few hours…just so that they can compete with the twinks? That’s ridiculous.

Any time I post, you aren’t reading what I’m saying. You’re just looking for a way to argue against it. It’s really not worth arguing with you at this point. I like debating and discussing things, but this clearly isn’t productive.

[Fjall-aggramar]

Jugs isn’t arguing as much as I am.

They’re just outlining that keeping your gear updated makes a difference.

My way is 5 levels of quests and dungeons while chanting things, then pvping the last 4 in the bracket. Makes it way easier to fight true twinks and gives you a big edge on lazy levelers.

[Grohg-hyjal]

Jugs isn’t arguing as much as I am.

They’re just outlining that keeping your gear updated makes a difference.

My way is 5 levels of quests and dungeons while chanting things, then pvping the last 4 in the bracket. Makes it way easier to fight true twinks and gives you a big edge on lazy levelers.

Of course keeping gear updated makes a difference, nobody said it wouldn’t. Your iLevel is literally the value of your power. The higher that is, the more powerful you are.

The point is, players were not wasting their time trying to get reasonable enough gear to deal with twinks, so the queues were separated. This is all in the past, it’s been done, there is no hypothetical. What you’re saying is…you want to keep twinks a thing, so everyone else just needs to not pvp until the last 4 levels in a bracket, and after they’ve done some work on the first 5 so they can have enough gear to survive 5 hits instead of 2? Equally ridiculous.

[Grohg-hyjal]

The fact is…you’re coming up with all of these things players will need to do, just to barely have a fighting chance…and all this to keep twinks in. Your almost arguing my point for me…the backflips that need to get done, instead of just removing twinks and letting everyone have fun (which again, is what happened).

[Fjall-aggramar]

Did it?
Because what I’ve seen on my leveling toons is people still playing those BiS toons against even poorly geared levelers.

Just seems like more catering to casual players who don’t really want to put in time or effort into their character.

Also, all the things we’ve listed are not exactly over the top. I mean a few dungeons and quests to make sure you are mildy competitive instead of running around in 20 lvls below your needed gear doesn’t seem like much of a stretch.

It’s not like I’m saying go spend 10 hours farming a boe staff and hope it procs as epic instead of uncommon. Now that would be silly for levelers…unless you sell it for a ton gold then hey either way now you can buy heirlooms and fully upgrade them.

[Rocax-frostwolf]

So you expect people to waste time/gold every time they hit a new bracket they won’t be in for more than a few hours…just so that they can compete with the twinks? That’s ridiculous.

You understand that from the other side of the argument, it looks like the people you describe above want to dictate how others want to play in the same manner, yes?

One side doesn’t like the expectation of getting items and enchanting them to do PvP in a bracket their only going to be in for a couple of hours, as you say.

The other side decides to spend more than a couple of hours to make characters how ever they want and play in those brackets how ever they want. But is told that their method of play isn’t important or needed, while they pay the same $15.00.

The number of changes made to the game overall with this issue are far in favor of the “leveler” crowd. Lots of things don’t get announced officially either. As a lowbie, you can’t get darkmoon sage buffs and enter a BG for example, that’s been disabled recently.

[Oäk-bloodhoof (Oäk)]

Seems to me people think bgs are all about that 1v1 XD for w/e reason

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

The backflips? What I did was hardly backflips but okay. People will still gear that way and have the advantage.

[Grohg-hyjal]

Also, all the things we’ve listed are not exactly over the top. I mean a few dungeons and quests to make sure you are mildy competitive instead of running around in 20 lvls below your needed gear doesn’t seem like much of a stretch.

Leveling is very fast and easy, it’s really not that unheard of for someone to have underwhelming gear levels. It’s easy to gear up a bit as well, so I’m not saying people should have no gear either. But when we’re talking about twinks, there is no middle ground and that’s the difference we’re talking about.

But is told that their method of play isn’t important or needed, while they pay the same $15.00.

That’s not true. Go have fun…you have your very own queue to enjoy with equally geared players. It’s like all the twinks are so upset that the other kids don’t want to play with them on the playground.

And btw, you’re doing the same thing by demanding players spend the time/gold to get comparable gear so they can actually enjoy battlegrounds. Don’t be hypocrites and not acknowledge that you are requiring players to do something just because you want to exist as twinks.

And for all of you, let’s take a quick change of perspective…

On the one hand we have the mixture of twinks and everyone else. In that scenario, the twinks (an incredibly small percentage of players compared to the rest) are having a blast destroying all the under-geared players. The rest of the players are frustrated because they absolutely can’t win the battleground, let alone survive long enough to do anything meaningful. On the other hand, we remove twinks entirely and guess what…everyone can still have fun in the battlegrounds. Twinks without their advantage would still enjoy the game, so clearly the best course of action was splitting the queues.