Twinks are now just leaving BGs early

[Erelir-bleeding-hollow (Erelir)]

The objective before level 120 is to get to 120. The objective at 120 is to access gear to perform better in your content of choice.

Their is a small sect of players who think outside the box a bit and treat lower level brackets as though they are current end game, and that’s fine. But it’s not fine to pit people who turn their experience off to hunt for the best possible gear for their characters against people (the overwhelming majority of pre-cap players) who’s primary goal is to get to 120. These players’ goals are incompatible with one another.

Edit: To clarify, it COULD be fine to pit these two groups against one another, but something’s gotta give. Scaling needs to be less flexible, enchants need to be retuned or banned, etc.

[Jadei-shadowsong (Jadei)]

And a minimum ilvl. Everyone who joins a bg should be able to contribute and there are some players who can’t because they’ve gimped their characters with worthless gear.

It’s odd how many players are complacent to that, but are very outspoken against twinks.

[Erelir-bleeding-hollow (Erelir)]

Everyone who joins a bg should be able to contribute

Wholly agreed.

It’s odd how many players are complacent to that, but are very outspoken against twinks.

It’s comparably odd for people to point to under-preparation as a detriment and simultaneously think that perfectly (or near-perfectly) geared characters running around is healthy in a leveling format.

[Jadei-shadowsong (Jadei)]

One put effort into their character, the other didn’t. See where I’m going?

I don’t deny there are twink items and enchants that need changed, but i have no sympathy for players who expect a fair chance but did almost nothing to make it happen.

[Erelir-bleeding-hollow (Erelir)]

Levelers aren’t in need of anyone’s sympathy for as long as the brackets remain separated.

We don’t want to have to gear to compete with BiS-clad players in each of the eleven brackets to 120, and Blizzard agrees. For now. End-game is the focus of our effort.

[Jadei-shadowsong (Jadei)]

Could be because some are apathetic to the undergeared but very vocal about the over geared. As a leveler, I don’t particularly want to see them in my bgs getting a free ride.

You brought up reintegrating with changes. I added my own but now you want to fall back on “and Blizzard agrees”?

[Lucritius-wyrmrest-accord]

Erelir,

I’m not disputing the fact that people who are prioritizing leveling are likely to have the objective of getting to max level in order to do that content. I also agree with your statement that the objective at max level is to accrue gear that helps perform better at the content of choice.

I disagree with the statement that the objective before level 120 is to get to 120. That is something each player must decide for himself or herself. Discussion of intentions, player goals, and other subjective things is not in the scope of the answers I’ve given. I’ll be happy to talk about it in a different thread, but I would prefer to keep my discussion of functional similarity to that topic.

If someone wants to get to level 60, 70, 80, etc and shut xp off to run old raids at level, that’s their choice, and they’re not violating any basic tenets of the game by not leveling all the way to 120.

The same can be said for people who choose to twink.

The objective at 120 is to access gear to perform better in your content of choice.

As you said, the objective at [max level] is to access gear to perform better in chosen content. With the ability to turn off xp, the threshold of max level is whatever a player chooses for it to be. Once that level is reached, the objective is then to access gear to perform better in chosen content. They may not be exactly 1 to 1 equivalent, but they are functionally the same.

That’s the context in which I answered Mohawk’s question, quoted below.

What is the difference between PvPing at the level cap (in this case 120) with the best gear in the game (for that level) and destroying people who are undergeared compared to you AND PvPing against people at any level with the best gear (for that level) and destroying people who are undergeared compared to you?

There is no functional difference between BiS geared people at max level and people in BiS gear at a lower level. Any given player has the set of skills the dev team has allotted them at the given level, has the gear they’ve accumulated, and has the level of skill they’ve acquired during play. Within that framework, the players in BiS gear stomping people in non-BiS gear is functionally equivalent, regardless of the level at which it’s happening.

experience off to hunt for the best possible gear for their characters against people

In the context of two players in a single battleground, where xp gain has no bearing, what functional difference is there at 120 vs 12? There is none. 120A with an ilvl of 450 vs. 120B with an ilvl of 225 are fighting and chances are 120A is going to wipe the floor with 120B. Then we have 12A in ilvl 35 vs. 12B in ilvl 15; chances are 12A is going to wipe the floor with 12B. This scenario plays out in all brackets, whether xp-on or xp-off.

Regards,
Vendorioc/Lucritius/Zinjud

[Evawyn-sargeras]

Every time I read this I belly laugh, I should bookmark it and come back on days Im grumpy. too funny

[Chöice-sargeras]

Is it though? Games are still very much lopsided

Why cure AIDS when people still die of cancer DERP?

The mental gymnastics required for your uninspiring and very tired arguments are staggering.

We get it dude, removing twinks didn’t fix issues of perfectly balanced games, and to expect such as the metric of success is mindnumbingly absurd.

Are there still lopsided matches, of course. However, are matches without twinks an improvement? Well I dunno, is removing a level 49 that can match the damage of level 90-99 players seemingly pertinent for balance’s sake? This isn’t a debate, it’s just simple logic.

[Chöice-sargeras]

Also I know this seems to defy twink “logic”, but lopsided matches without twinks are a hell of a lot more enjoyable than lopsided matches with them.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

This was used to solo Patchwerk, near the sewer pipes.

Unconscious Dig Rat

[Floyln-tichondrius (Floyln)]

You’ll have to explain that. It’s an absurd statement.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

Speak Ramstein’s that is the correct dialect.

[Funbear-dalaran]

Shadow OP sure suckered in a lot of people with his unproven claim.

[Erelir-bleeding-hollow (Erelir)]

You brought up reintegrating with changes. I added my own but now you want to fall back on “and Blizzard agrees”?

As in, Blizzard agrees that more drastic measures were necessary beyond tune this item, change that one. It would be better for everyone if we could find a satisfactory way to include twinks, but that’s evidently more work than they’re willing to put in.

If someone wants to get to level 60, 70, 80, etc and shut xp off to run old raids at level, that’s their choice, and they’re not violating any basic tenets of the game by not leveling all the way to 120.

Mhm. I said:

Their is a small sect of players who think outside the box a bit and treat lower level brackets as though they are current end game, and that’s fine.

---

In the context of two players in a single battleground, where xp gain has no bearing, what functional difference is there at 120 vs 12?

The difference, functional or otherwise, is that it is reasonable to expect xp-off players to have excellent gear, because they can farm for it at their leisure without risk of leveling out of their bracket, effectively bricking the gear. It is certainly not reasonable to expect players who don’t shut their experience off to be able to accomplish the same.

An xp-on player will not farm for gear that will become useless in days’, sometimes hours’ time. That’s not lazy, it’s legitimate.

There are no xp-on players at level 120. There are only xp-off players. That’s a tremendous difference.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

Shadow OP

Take a good look at every one of these Twink threads, they are full of shadows.
Plus more.

[Funbear-dalaran]

No kidding. It’s almost as though Ion has a random alt generator.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

Forum Activity = MAU.

[Abervdeen-malfurion]

You make it sound like your something special…

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

It is certainly not reasonable to expect players who don’t shut their experience off to be able to accomplish the same.

Except that heirlooms with enchants and just keeping up with other gear slots is pretty close to a twink… most people have heirlooms, they just don’t enchant them