Troll Heritage Quest

Did the quest chain on a trial character, so that my Darkspear shaman for the Remix could wear the heritage set. I have to say that I liked it, since we got to see Rokhan in action. Though it could have been better.

The fact that any Darkspear would turn to Mueh’zala is honestly confusing. Though I do like how we met and interacted with Kevo ya Siti and Lukou and the return of Jani was a delight. As always Bwonsamdi is fantastic.

Meanwhile I didn’t like how the helm looked with the heritage armor and the extra helms they included, just didn’t work for me. They just seem to hang on the tusks over actually being over the face. So I looked through my helm transmog and found that I like how the Sixteen-Fanged Crown (drops from the Stone Guard in the Mogu’shan Vaults) looks with the set.

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Except the ones that didn’t… Many have voiced this some on this thread, and on several other threads as well.

The “Not True Scotsman fallacy” meant to dismiss actual player criticism of a pretty shallow heritage quest line feels bad. You can disagree with people’s take away from the quest, but I don’t buy the “all true Troll players loved it” bit.

Except, have we? Blizzard has made a conscious effort to not include Darkspear in their choices for story moving forward. The Descision to focus on Varian’s death in Legion as a heroic martyr moment, but Vol’jin’s as a sort of after thought. This led to the constrained Vol’jin becomes a LOA story line that felt “tacked” on because of player criticism the Dev’s somehow missed would happen. Ironically, this “heritage” quest line feels like that too, a tacked on side quest that involves Darkspear, but doesn’t really give them any real personality.

I agree with the guy who clearly stated that this quest was written by a “worker” checking a box, not by a person deeply connected with the race or the players that chose them…. All you have to do is look at how Draenei are represented as a diverse group forgiving and coming together to be a stronger people, and Trolls continuing the “trope” of just deal with the “bad ones” so we can live with the “good ones”… ignoring the struggles of almost all Troll peoples having to fight for their lands as a historical part of the world. The quest doesn’t even give Witch Doctor Tzadah any real motivations to betray her people and join Mueh’zala. She’s just bad.

By “they” do you mean the Dev’s or the players? I don’t follow.

If you mean Dev’s, I disagree. I don’t think the Dev’s know what to do with Vol’jin. It’s clear that the way they choose stories and how to represent the different races through the actions of the “story characters” the Darkspear are just barely above the level of “troll villain tropes.” We see all the other tribes depicted as just bad but the Darkspear are “the good ones.” The feeling I get is this: The Dev’s look at all the work they put into Zandalari redemption as their means to correct the problematic narratives Trolls have been used for. The Darkspear heritage quest line is just the last box to balance the equation.

If you mean Players, I also disagree. I believe most players wanted Vol’jin and Sen’jin to be recognized, perhaps mentioned as part of some greater cultural ceremony. But I don’t think anyone was expecting a return from Vol’jin. I’m not even sure you could call it a heritage quest if it didn’t at least recognize the legacy of the two most prominent leaders. It would be like celebrating the revolutionary war in the U.S. but omitting George Washington, wierd. I know not every heritage quest line can be “It’s “X” special holiday, let’s grab the tribes together and celebrate. But in many ways, the most celebrated heritage quest lines do that.

Except when it does. The entire quest line is “The good ones” need to deal with the “bad ones.” The way it calls out all Troll cultures for violent in-fighting, as if Trolls are unique in this regard, or at the least more uniquely accountable for it than other races. It actively reduces the ritualistic aspect of the culture to a quick “arts and crafts” session, instead of doing real work by studying the actual cultures they’ve used to model their fantasy race around.

Also, the Dev’s using Rokhan’s expression of the Darkspear abandoning the old loa, as a stand-in for the Dev’s own acknowledgement of neglect for Darkspear seems a bit much. First, if it is true, that’s a poor way to deliver the message. It cheapens Rokhan as a character. Second, it would be ambiguous. People who got it, would see it as a cheap apology, those that didn’t would only know that Rokhan is speaking out of character.

Speaking of character, the entire quest line feels out of character for the Darkspear. If there is one theme I’d say is true about them, starting with Sen’jin and carried through Vol’jin’s actions and their connection to the Horde, is loyalty. Bwonsamdi says it at the end of the quest line, probably the only solid authentic Darkspear truth spoken in the quest line. So the idea that they “abandoned” other loa just feels out of character.

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I am a hardcore troll player, and the more I think about this questline the more aggrevated I am. If anything a true troll player should be annoyed for literally getting a sloppy writing AGAIN.

Exactly, I didn’t expect for Vol’Jin to appear, but there was literally ZERO reflection on Darkspear’s past, on their choices they made, on Sen’Jin’s vision, On Vol’Jin’s leagacy, and then delve into Rokhan and his vision for the tribe, and imo Rokhan should have slightly different way of governing Darkspears than Vol’Jin did. And Imo Rokhan should start putting Darkspears to finally take other troll matters in their own hands, and the questline should be about Darkspears reclaiming their place in STV and making other tribes finally bend over to Darkspear lead, if STV is meant to be under troll control.

It’s not just that. But Darkspears “abandoning” other loa makes absolutely no sense. They’re THE Shadow hunter tribe, they trained so many of them in order to reach as many loas as possible. It is very clearly a narrative mistake that ruins the Darkspear consistency. Darkspears already had the same plot in Zalazane’s fall when they had to appease Bwonsamdi for stopping revering him the moment they lost Echo Isles. Rokhan said that “Darkspears focused too much on death”- did they? But even for the sake of argument - you’re telling me that Darkspears only followed Bwonsamdi the whole time?!

Then how they trained other shadow hunters? And are you telling me that since Vanilla up to late WotLK Darkspears didn’t venerate ANY loa?! then from whom Darkspear shadow hunters drew their powers from?
And not only that but since Cataclysm that is factually wrong statement. Darkspears also gained Gonk as their unique Loa, in WoD Kajassa calls for power of Shango, in BfA Ty’Jin had abilities drawn from Lukou and Dambala.

So that is again proof of sloppy writing by people that just don’t care.
And it should be so easy to write compelling Darkspear heritage questline.
Just ask a question “how they started, and where are they now?” Explore their history. Explore their legacy, show what future awaits them.

I also find dragging other troll tribes down to be very poor choice. When majority of said trolls didn’t really do that much to earn constant condemnation.

Besides are you really telling me that trolls are this much worse than Man’ari Eredar?! Really? Yet the game found a way to excuse them, and they cannot give any grace to the race who’s only fault was that they wanted to keep their territories?!

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I am a huge troll fan (not just Zandalari) and I’m just chiming in to say that I found the heritage quests lackluster on their own, and abysmal compared to the draenei one they stood alongside.

PROS:

  • New Loa (or rather, Loa dredged up from the past) who aren’t inherently animal-based or ascended trolls is nice. Something a little more eerie, a little more nebulous.
  • The voice acting is good.
  • Any day with more Bwonsamdi is a good day.
  • Jani feels like he would definitely favor the Darkspear as a whole; they are the cast-offs of the troll tribes, which is how they found the Horde to begin with. Which, at its WoW origins, was a faction made of cast-offs. Good pick.

CONS:

  • Bethekk? Shirvallah? Hethiss? Hir’eek? All the jungle troll Loa that the Darkspear followed before leaving Stranglethorn? Forget about them. Not important!
  • Lukou: I dislike the notion that the power of regeneration is tied to a single Loa (let alone one that looks like a goofy little podling-- I hate those things). Maybe if they re-framed her as a Loa of mending, not just regeneration, it’d be fine. A Loa that supports regeneration without being its source.
  • Tied to the point above, I much prefer that regeneration is a natural biological trait of trolls that the Loa can enhance with their favor. It feels like the existence of Lukou undermines that for the entire troll species, unless clarified.
  • Oh look, another troll has turned traitor to the Darkspear. What a shocker. Zzz.
  • Look, the whole gang is here. We got… 3 forgettable NPCs from the Cataclysm start zone, Rokhan, Bwemba, and Gadrin. A real who’s-who of Darkspear trolls. (Compared to almost every draenei leader and iconic character short of the ones who are dead being present at the Tishamaat-- and even a couple of who are.)
  • Vol’who? Never heard of him. Next question.

The armor is nice. Probably won’t use the head pieces though, as none of them resemble a rush’kah mask or the witch doctor face scarf, which hangs under the nose, just a weird combination of both.

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My biggest frustration. Feels like his resurrection was just a tease to mollify pissed off Horde players that their roster took yet another hit. Looking at Malfurion and Magni, I expect Varian to come back before Vol’jin

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I don’t know… Both Malfurion and Magni are kinda retiring and letting the younger generations deal with problems. Feels like what they needed to do was build up a cast of younger trolls to make better use of.

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If they did that, I’d have been at least somewhat fine with Vol’jin dying.

But its been years since Rokan and Gazlowe took over, and they’re just now getting any sort of focus.

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The troll and worgen heritage quests both deserve a part 2 in the future. To improve/retcon some of the changes they did with those questlines.

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I don’t think the troll heritage needs a part 2 per se, just keep building up Rokhan and other darkspear (maybe some Revantusk and Shatterspear reps as well), and bring back Vol’jin as more of a wider trolldom rep whenever there’s time to give the trolls the spotlight in a positive way (so probably never)

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Because her original title was Loa of Healing and respite. She was meant to be tied to a water, and bring rain to ease the pain, she was also a very benevolent Loa full of compassion for troll kind.
For many yeats she was functioning among the troll rp community as a beautiful troll female. So it was a missed opportiunity to give a ascended female troll.

I even drawn her how I’d envision her

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/625449755996192781/1241112297825632256/Lukou.jpg?ex=664ef226&is=664da0a6&hm=f995807405923912840d046a373858a7609d11a3f6bb352d33c5aba398b06057&

There was also missed opportiunity to tie her to the Nek’mani Wellspring, known for it’s miraculous healing properties.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nek%27mani_Wellspring

This place is also visually beautiful, and when you enter the zone, a different mystical music plays. Far more fitting for a loa than Ogre Den. It would be a great callback to vanilla quest, and the enemies are Nagas - the nemesis of the Darkspear Tribe. They’d hit 2 birds with one stone.

Rokhan is WC3 Veteran, yet for YEARS he was neglected. He only had a cameo in WotLk where he gavce you one quest. Then didn’t appear at all in Cata, MoP, and in WoD he was just sitting in Garrison where his accent was constantly changing.
In Legion he only appeared during PVP quest as a Darkspear representative, and only in BfA they actually started to write him.

Liadrin had much more consistent prominance. It’s absolute disgrace that Developers seems to be able to write one troll at the time.

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I’d completely redo Worgen and troll questline. Both are a disgrace. Worgen one is shaming players, and Troll one is sloppy and convoluted mess that was written by someone who doesn’t care about trolls. And just throws anything in hopes it would stick.

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This one especially. I’d love for the Worgen’s to not be treated like monsters. But then again, I’m old school Horde. We old Horde souls would welcome the outcasts of the other races into our found family… sadly there are few of us who remember the old ways of the Horde, of honor and the strength that comes from the diversity of thoughts and peoples.

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I love the drawing. It’s really well done. Just wanted to give a compliment :dracthyr_nod:

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I drawn it out of frustration, that we got Draenor podling >.> a specie that is not even native to Azeroth.

And what a missed opportiunity to have troll female Loa, someone that would compliment Bwonsamdi, with him being avatar of death, and she being avatar of life.

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I know I troll some of the more extremist troll fans, but seriously, it is a damn shame that the trolls and troll fans haven’t had much to be proud of.

It’s honestly sad because I know the feeling

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Only Erevien is the extremist, but I know erevien from EU forums, before BfA he was trashing trolls, now he is supporting them only becuase he is clinging to anyone that is anti Alliance. But most of troll players are sensible. And judging by my own discord channel, most of them just stopped playing, they lost the heart for the game. The situation is this hopeless for them.

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I know the feeling of hopelessness and I like you and others, I was and still am mad about how blizz treats my fav race.

(I mean Goldrinn blessing VARIAN over GENN? Like what the hell?)

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That was baffling to me as well. Goldrin picking him over nelves who were venerating him as an ancient, or Worgen that have link to his nature.
Varian just comes and immediately becomes his champion.

And I remember that I met Goldrin and he was mopping that Varian died, instead of worrying that the entire world is under literal invasion. Oookin pathetic.

But then again I never liked Varian, his story was just weird to me.

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Gadrin needs to vet his students better. It honestly makes me wonder if Bom’bay, his assistant in Sen’jin Village, is secretly up to something.

Noooo, Not Bom’bay… He is one of the coolest NPCs in game.

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