Wrong again. I’d think his opinion had merit had he given it a fair shake. I’ve made that blatantly clear. I’d disagree with him but that’s not the same thing. And no, you can’t just ignore ignorance or wrong opinions. That’s how racism seethes in the background until some poor person gets lynched.
What you consider a “fair shake” is ultimately subjective. And nobody is obligated to follow your subjective opinion on what a “Fair shake”.
You certainly have. That still doesn’t change the fact that it’s still subjective.
The hell are you even talking about?.. You literally can ignore somebody’s opinion if you think it’s meaningless or without merit. OP isn’t forcing you to listen at gunpoint. He’s not going to bust in your home and beat you up with a hammer or try to cancel you though twitter by shouting “racist” like it’s going out of style if you don’t agree.
Infact, i highly doubt he even care for anybody agreeing or disagreeing with him anymore, this thread is up like… what, 3 days?..
Were not talking about racism. This has nothing to do with racism. This is you trying to shoehorn this racism point in where it’s not even comparable to the slightest at all because were talking about somebody giving their opinion of a video game they dislike. That’s it. Anything more then that is on you.
And this is coming from somebody who disagrees with OP. I don’t think it’s a terrible game as he said it is. I just think he delivered his opinion as if it’s objective fact, when it isn’t, and should take a page out of my thread on how to write this.
This discussion seems like it’ll go on forever.
Group A believes you glance at the pictures on the box and say you dislike something.
Group B believes you need to more than a 1% sample size before you can make an opinion that anyone cares to hear.
It’s not like pictures on a box… He played it for 2 days. That’s hardly “reading the box”… 
And that’s what OP did. He gave you more then 1%. I don’t know about you, but 2 days is a lot in terms of MMO time, and MMO’s are more then just endgame…
So why is that not good enough for you since he sampled more then 1%?
We can agree to disagree if that ends this.
You’re not going to change my mind and it’s clear I’m not going to change yours.
I do not believe anyone who played for 2 days has played enough to adequately assess the game to determine if it’s good or not. The OP is not obligated to play it further because myself or anyone else believes this.
That is your subjective standard.
As for “reading the book”, OP would literally just open the main menu and just declared it sucked. But he didn’t. He even got much further then i did, with him being level 30 in two whole days. Sounds like to me he made some progress that is higher then 1%. Especially since MMO’s have more then just Endgame.
…Okay, so why you expect him to take those comments of yours seriously then if by your admission he’s not obligated to play it further?..
I mean… i guess… 
As I’ve said, nobody on this forum is obligated to do anything any other random poster says. Call it a “you’re not my real dad” thing, if you would. However, if you do post your opinion (especially if you’re the thread OP), understand that you are going to get ridiculed if you base an opinion off conjecture.
Yes, it is my subjective opinion but that’s what experts are for. I’ve played enough of that game to where I could tell you just about anything. The OP can take my comments at face value, tell me where to go and give me the finger, whatever he wants.
I’ve said all I feel I need to on this subject. If the OP doesn’t play it any further than he has, I wish him luck in whatever he plays.
And that person also has a right to write it off and think that comment has no merit either.
Also, didn’t you said he has to more then sample 1%?.. And he did just that?.. I mean by your own admission, it’s no longer conjecture if it’s “Worth listening” in your mind. 
Well you don’t really come off as an “expert”, i mean anybody can do this “You’ve really played if you played for X amount of hours”, regardless if they are an expert or not. If anything, it just borders or is elitism a lot of the time. Something that is known for need requiring anybody to be an expert in to make such an opinion like that to other opinions…
… Actually, come to think of it, you’ve never shown any proof of you being an expert. Nor proof if you even played the game yourself. But, i’m sure you will do that after i pointed that out… right?..
Which is why I said they can take it for face value or tell me where to go.
I said 1% as an example. No matter what, there are too many variables in FFXIV to play for 2 days and decide it’s not good. That’s my stance. Nothing you’re going to change.
I have nothing to prove. I’m stating what I am based off my experience, which is a lot. This thread is a conjecture review, not a weenie measuring contest.
That’s also the problem that experts deal with all the time. People love to try to discredit your expertise by picking fights or arguing because they want attention. Some do it because they’re jealous or envious and some do it because they’re bored.
Another game I’m an expert on is Pokemon. I’ve played it for 25 years, know just about everything there is to know and I’m known in the community for it. At least 1-2 times a year for the past 13 years, I get some random who wants to try challenging me by asking ridiculous questions that have no real answer.
Which is also subjective.
Mate, you seriously think i want to weigh your FF14 toon against mine? Like i said before, OP got further then i did. I stopped around Level 5 because i was bored about it. If you pay me to contiune playing, i would run off with the money, get an RTX 3080 and play GTA VC with RT mods instead.
I’m asking for your toon for credibility sakes because otherwise it’s just conjecture on your part. Infact, you never even asked him for his toon, come to think about it now… It really puts you being an expert into question if you’re okay with some incomplete infomation being allowed on your part…
…Having people ask you for proof instead of them blindly agreeing with you just because you call yourself an expert and throw a fit over people asking for proof, instead of doing the normal thing and providing proof?..
Nobody but you are claiming themselves to be an expert.
I mean you say “they try to challenge me”, but couldn’t even accept that simple challenge. That kind of makes you sound like you can’t handle being an expert if simple questions like “what’s your proof” is what you deemed “ridiculous”. 
I love GTA, The sims, Spyro, played them for nearly all my life at this point, but i’ve never said i’m an expert in any of them. I am a fan of them.
I’ve already made that clear. You keep saying that even though we know that any opinion is subjective.
I never said you would. I clearly said this isn’t a weenie measuring contest.
Who threw a fit? Can you link it? I scrolled up and didn’t see it.
You don’t have to use the exact word “expert” to be one. That’s not important either.
Exactly what proof are you wanting to see? A badge of honor? A secret decoder ring?
That’s you, not me. I’ve played tons of games. There are few I would consider myself an expert on and FFXIV, Pokemon and MTG are the top ones I do.
This conversation has fallen victim to scope creep at this point. It’s went from the OP broadcasting his opinion on conjecture to trying to narrow in on my personal credibility. I didn’t make the thread. The onus isn’t in my court.
It’s worthy of reminding.
I don’t think anybody is interested in weighing their FF14 toons against yours either. The toons are there to show proof. Not be a “my horse is better then your horse” contest as you said.
You.
So you didn’t say you’re an expert then. You were just being fictitious. Well i suppose the quotes was a dead giveaway.
What do you mean it’s not important? You bought up experts and seemingly makes it important. Now you’re saying it’s not?..
Your FF14 Toon. That’s literally proof their asking.
I don’t see what’s so troublesome about giving the people what they expected from an expert. I mean what, are you shy or something? You think people are going to laugh at your toon?..
Here. I had to find that toon because it’s been so long, but here’s my Lalafell. He’s nothing special.
Same here. GTA, The Sims and Spyro are just 3 examples.
Didn’t you say something about “going on the internet with your opinion that is conjecture, you’re gonna have people disagreeing and ridiculing you?”… Why is that okay for you to do that?.. I mean experts know they will have people asking them where they credibility lies, so they make sure to be prepared for that.
I mean which is it? Are you an expert or not?..
By your own design. You’ve claimed to be an expert, and therefore, people are in the right to question your credibility.
It doesn’t matter who made the thread. If you call yourself an expert, and if somebody asks you where you credibility lies, the worst thing you can do is handle it pretty poorly by pretending these questions are “ridiculous”. That hurts your credibility. As well not taking responsibility for claiming your an expert.
Proof of what? Existence?
Where?
You’re not making any sense. I said I was an expert. I was asking who threw a fit and where. Or is this one of those things where someone disagrees with someone and they say “you’re bawling” rather than say “you’re disagreeing” like a normal person?
You’re taking it out of context and you know you are.
Who’s “they?” Literally the only person here talking to me is you.
It’s not, but I know how this game works. You’re currently in fight mode. When someone is in that stance, they’re ready to cherry pick what they’re shown and pretend it’s insufficient. I’ve seen this game on all the forums and subreddits.
I could care less if some random guy on the internet laughs at anything of mine. I feel bad for anyone who actually does care about things like that.
You’re talking apples and oranges. This thread is a guy broadcasting his opinion based purely on conjecture (openly admits it). We’re not talking about a random person asking someone they know is knowledgeable some trick questions on discord, hoping for a “gotcha” moment.
They have the right to do whatever they want, it’s their time. However, most people who question the credibility of experts are not really questioning their credibility because they genuinely are curious. They’re doing it to shift the focus of the discussion and grasp at straws.
“Oh, you’ve only completed M20 and not M21?! LOL!! Your know nothing!” And when the person is in fight mode, I would be my entire retirement pension that’s exactly what they’re doing. I’m not fresh off the boat.
EDIT: Actually, you remind me of this guy I went to school with. Anecdote warning…
I was working in a computer store as their head technician like 5 years after graduation. He comes in and asks if we’re hiring. I said “Not currently but we can take an application if you’d like.” He said “Well… what’re your qualifications?..” So I made the rookie mistake of taking the bait and he proceeded to say how how he was better than me at everything and has more right to work there than I do… blah blah blah. I kept telling him “I’m sorry you feel that way” and he just kept going (the way you do) and finally the manager came out and asked him to leave, telling him “We’re not interested in… you”
I’m sorry you feel that way.
You’re welcome to get shift the conversation back on topic or continue obsessing about me and trying yourself for a “gotcha” moment, which isn’t going to happen, I’m afraid.
Proof. 
Of. Your. Expertise. In. Final. Fanasty. Four. Teen.
…Are you genuinely slow?..
…Never mind, that answers that question…
So where’s your credibility lies in?.. Hmm? Why be afraid to show off your toon? I bet you done nearly everything in that game.
I pointed and linked to a comment where you did. You just couldn’t be bothered…
Because you’re not just disagreeing with them like a normal person. You wouldn’t know normal if it asked you out on a date, what do you know about it?..
You literally said you’re an expert, and you even bought up expert. And you’re saying it’s not important. If it’s not important, why bring it up?.. What context am i missing here?.. Hmm? Can you point it out?..
Anybody who asks.
Literally irrelevant who asks who, it’s the principle. If you called yourself an expert, and somebody asks you where your proof… in order to maintain your credibility, you have to prove it to them… Otherwise you will be dismissed based on that lack of proof.
…Yeah, you know it so well, that you’re not going to play it… sure…
Something tells me it’s not the only game you don’t play as well… 
Nice ad-hom.
I’ve litterly just shown my toon. I’m not afraid to show my proof.
You clearly do care. I mean you keep on lying “i don’t care, i don’t care, i don’t care”, but you clearly do care. Which is why you’re trying to excuse yourself from not providing proof to your expertise.
Yeah, how dare people want to know the actual facts or want proof. They should just Listen and believe everything i said without question. /s
I’m sure you think that… /s
And you openly admit by saying your opinion is conjecture with no proof of yours.
You lbought up “I’m an expert” my guy. Trying to act like you’ve never said that isn’t going to work. Also, you’re so narrowminded that you think people are out to get you with that “You think it’s a “gotcha” moment.”, when you brought this on yourself with that.
I would ask that question i’ve said awhile back again, but i already know the answer to that anyways…
How can you even possiblity know that? For all i know, you’re just making that crap up to paint people as malicious. That’s not very honest of you…
You’re trying to use one comment as a representative for all comments and dismissing it based off of one silly comment.
Plus, it’s not all that silly if you proclaimed to be an expert in something… this is why people ask for proof.
That’s not subjective. That’s objective. If the roles are reveresed here, you would be doing the same thing, asking for proof. And you know it.
You first.
…Says the person who just made a snarky comment on my GTA thread a day ago…
You didn’t really came in to genuinely talk about the trailer at first (or even talked much at all beyond the vauge “i love the colors”…), you just quoted out of context of me being miffed at something Rockstar still isn’t doing and proceeded to make snark out of that.
Because you’re incredibly being disingenuous in thinking i’m trying to “gotcha” you… I don’t know why you think i’m fighting you, when i’m trying to have a discussion with you. You’re pretty much guilty of almost everything you’ve said about me here… And pretty hypocritical as well.
For the 3rd time, I already said I was an expert. Why do you keep saying that I’m claiming never to have said that when I’ve said it 3 times so far?
I’m done playing games with you. You’re welcome to walk away pretending you won like a typical sealion.
I’ve already said
You’re welcome to continue obsessing if you want. You can prove me wrong by not continuing or prove me right, up to you.
No it’s not subjective. The very phrase fair means what society in general agrees is fair. Noone agrees with such a short trial period. You’re just trolling, even you don’t agree with it.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh… I get it now. The past tense. So you’re saying you were an expert, but not anymore now then… Alright.
My bad. 
Might want to tone your aggression there Matty, i don’t see what’s wrong with asking questions…
…Well then again, you might, so you probably see everybody as sealions.
https://media.giphy.com/media/K8zzqui9viWT6/giphy-downsized-large.gif
That’s not how proving things work… That’s your own subjective opinion of what you think of me that you’re trying to apply that we haven’t even agreed to …
Deny it all you want, but it is subjective on what’s a “Fair shake” is. What you’re describing is something reviewers have to follow…
The society is irrelevant to people having opinions on things. Especially since it’s ultimately subjective what the society thinks anyways.
We are not talking about a short trial, nor the society for that manner.
Says the person who made this … 
Regardless if it’s without merit or has merit, i would still take an issue with his comment all the same because it’s a silly thing to say in general.
First off… why throw a “but” after he said “It’s not a bad game”?.. as to say… “It’s not a bad game, but it would be better without those moogles” for example?.. It’s not usually the time to put a big “but” there in the sentence like that.
Second, he’s giving them a time limit that they have no idea before then until now, they only serve to exist to de-legitmentize them. And their always different from person to person to person. Which is why i refer to them as subjective.
Thirdly and last, this whole “You’ve haven’t played the game” sorts of comments, you know, the sorts that tell you “Oh you did M20 but didn’t do M21? well you aren’t really playing the game” or their PvP equalivents… that sort of comments. That would be like me telling Matthew “You haven’t really played Fallout 4 if you only played for 200 hours or never started building houses”. Objectively speaking, if you spend any amount of time in the game (sans the menus) then objectively, you’re playing the game. Plus, OP isn’t forcing anybody to care. You two can just ignore it if you don’t think they “played the game” in your mind…
Don’t bother feeding him. The engine is running but nobody is behind the wheel.
It’s not very good for gear though, which gets outclassed by even basic dungeon gear. Better for consumables though, but I used to run an alchemist, and gathered my own mats on my druid. I found that I could earn more gold by just selling the herbs. Crafting flasks and potions was a loss, even with rank 3 crafting.
It doesn’t have to be good, it gets the job done.
For swtor unless you’re in a guild most dont bother with the dungeons outside the solo version. So gear there is pointless. Everyone relies on the enhancements you can add to the gear.
For wow yeah dungeon gear is better but there will always be the people who actively avoid dungeons and raids at any cost and rely on crafted gear, world quests and in shadowlands case, covenant gear.
The thing is a game doesn’t need some overly complicated crafted system just to justify the decent crafting gear. It can have a very simplified system with decent gear. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.