Reminds me of that class in warhammer online where your pet was tanking and you did positional melee attacks.
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Shaman Tank spec
Rogue bard spec
Death knight cloth wearing necromancer spec
Before someone says but then they would have to fill loot tables with instruments for bards, personal loot makes that a non issue
who would want to go discuss survival there when every thread about survival is immediately invaded by the same few people who never shut up about RSV. itās just awful.
what new player would want to even try survival if thatās how the spec is always presented?
Yes, Warhammer had a strong class fantasy with a long list of awesome single spec classes
Tank warlock
Mage healer
Tank Hunter
Tank Rogue
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Priest: Holy DPS, agree with OP
Mage: Chronomancy healing.
Warlock: Blood Healing
Rogue: Ranged weapon dps, change outlaw to tank
DH: Light melee and Void 2 hander melee spec
Monk: Range fire dps spec from chi ji
Shaman: earthen tank spec
Hunter: Dark Ranger, survival is tank now
Warrior: Gladiator (sword and board dps)
Death Knight: Fleshcrafting healer
Paladin: ranged with ranged weapons, like a van helsing monster hunter.
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We should keep melee survival and instead take the old ranged survival and make it a fourth hunter spec. Maybe make it Ranger or Trapper or something.
I dunno, I just donāt wanna see more specs just being destroyed for the sake of change, and rather just see a new one added that brings back the old playstyle.
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GLAD 
I AT OR
DPS with Sword n Board. Itās time.
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The two classes I would add to the game are bard and artificer
Yep, this is basically what Iām suggesting. I donāt want to repeat the mistakes made in Legion.
To elaborate, the hunter section of the boards has multiple ideas on how to go about implementing an updated version of the old spec.
Ghorak has multiple good ideas in his thread for a spec. I have my own variation that focuses more on infusing shots with magic with an additional resource mechanic to help further differentiate it from the other specs.
Thereās a lot of ways to go about it, thereās a lot of thematic space within the class that can be explored while satisfying players and returning something that has been missing without taking away from others again.
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I really agree with this. Something about coming from a Beastlord in EQ to a ranged class that doesnāt even care about its companion really bothers me. Itās just a convenient meat shield to the spec and doesnāt do it justice (granted, now itās more zookeeper than companion, but digress).
Or better yet, imagine MM/BM being overpowered and a Survival-only legendary weapon drops. Thatās just spite to a good percentage of the class. Granted, in the current world, they just spit on the minority of hunters.
Ayy, maybe one day Blizzard will look through forums for good ideas and feedback. Until then, weāll get Torghast iterations until your eyes bleed.
Feel free to specify howā¦
What exactly made them play too similarly to one another?
Others have already explained what RSV was about and how that was different from BM/MM. Andā¦
ā¦itās not just about 1 single ability. Itās about all of them and what they all formed when combined. Abilities/passive effects. Itās about the theme of the intended fantasy as a Munitions Expert + Trapper, AND itās also about the mechanical theme and functional design.
Having said that, Lazyguide provided a link to a concept of mine which I have posted with the intent of presenting a modern version of what RSV could be like if made for the game as it is today. Thanks @Lazyguide !
Whether you like the specifics of the concept itself, is up to you ofc. But feel free to compare it to modern day BM or MM, or current SV for that matter. It deff isnāt like either of those, neither in theme/fantasy, nor in function.
The point here is that it doesnāt matter whether anyone thinks RSV was too similar to BM/MM back in WoD. Because going forward, the intent was to double down on the design of all specs in the game. Making all specs focus even more on their individual identities.
Nothing stopped the devs from doing the same to SV as they did to all other specs at the time. But instead, they just deleted it in itās entirety.
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You can trade loot. The fact that Hunters are already the only ones using ranged weapons is already idiotic. Adding a spec-specific weapon on top of that is just another layer of idiocy.
And yes, Glaives for DH were a mistake too. Shouldāve just classified them as swords or polearms or something and used the graphic.
They absolutely had a right to be different specs as they are totally different from a thematic standpoint. SV even had Lone Wolf available to it in WoD which should tell you its philosophy was drastically different to that of BM. They had major playstyle differences too; they could have been more distinct which is just an argument for further iterating on their respective playstyles, not declaring that they have no right to be distinct specs (just a bit of an overreaction thereā¦) and turning Survival into effectively melee BM with bombs.
Youāre posting from a class with 3 ranged specs; one of which is distinct through its use of demons (Demonology) and one through its use of curses and DoT effects (Affliction). You should know better than to pretend that a) such a distinction isnāt enough for two Hunter specs and b) defining a spec via tokenistic weakness v.s. the base class is a sensible and effective approach.
MM does not have Black Arrow, actually. It no longer exists at all. Its Explosive Shot is drastically different to that of the old one so that isnāt so much a barrier. Thereās more to ranged Survival than just Explosive Shot (contrary to what youāre pretending to be the case here). You have Black Arrow, the Lock and Load interaction, Serpent Sting and all its interactions, and the baseline improvements to trapping. Itās a different thematic focus to MM because it focuses on special munitions and utility rather than the sniping approach. And itās a hell of a lot more valuable to this class than the token melee spec.
This is true, but since the overwhelming majority of Hunters donāt want to be melee and the class is ranged at a baseline level this sort of thing should be an option within BM rather than the specās baseline, e.g. a talented melee stance that swaps ranged shots for melee attacks in exchange for a damage boost.
Hi. Goblin guy here. If my posts caused people like you to stop going to the Hunter forums as far as Iām concerned thatās a job well done. Youāre wrong, anyway, because I can name at least 10 off the top of my head who frequently support ranged Survival on the forums, here goes:
- Lazyguide
- Ghorak
- Watermist
- Yura
- Illidette
- Bheleu
- Deflux
- Ogdenir
- Zalgo
- Guillotaur
The last one doesnāt exactly fit the definition but I wanted to include him anyway, because he was a very frequent poster for many years on the Hunter forums until he quit during BFA due to the direction of the class.
Thatās just the WoW forums and just the ones most memorable to me. You have plenty of discussion on the topic on Reddit, Mmo-champion, and Youtube as wellā¦ You also have famous WoW personalities in favour of ranged Survival. Bellular, Preach, Limit Maximum, and Bendak (maker of the old Hunter podcasts) are all in favour of ranged Survival. Asmongold is in favour of melee Survival, but thatās to be expected from a Warrior main. He also never plays it when heās on his Hunter, so like 90% of melee SV support it doesnāt have any weight to it.
Youāre not going to convince anyone that ranged Survival is an issue only a handful of diehards on the forums want. Itās been a major issue since Legionās announcement and a lot of people would be interested in seeing a ranged Survival; certainly far more than people who wanted melee Survival before they went and did that.
P.S. I never make the topics about Survival on the Hunter forums; I only reply to existing topics.
Are you assuming that everyone else who plays the game and doesnāt post is just fine with melee Survival? Because that certainly isnāt true. Iāve met plenty of people over the years who donāt post on the forums and hate melee Survival, wishing it were ranged again. In fact every single Hunter Iāve raided with since Legionās launch has preferred ranged Survival.
Most of the theorycrafters and common posters in there are also in favour of ranged Survival, you know, so you arenāt exactly helping your argument with this.
Good grief. āIs Survival a bad spec? No! Itās the entire rest of the game thatās wrongā. You have to know how delusional this seems, right? Survival Hunter fans always engage in this obnoxious coping mechanism where the spec is Godās gift to class design but the playerbase is just not capable of appreciating it. Maybe the spec just isnāt that good after all if next to no one wants to play it?
Ah yes, letās just bail it out with an essential utility! This totally isnāt a lazy bandaidā¦
People played SV at the top level when it was ranged and it didnāt need a super special raid spot guarantee for that. Well, that was their gambit for one expansion (TBC Expose Weakness) but they ditched that bandaid in WotLK in favour of a spec design and philosophy that actually made sense.
Yes, good point. Mixing melee and ranged DPS in the same class is generally not a good idea and we should limit it to the classes that started that way (Druid, Shaman). Knowing that this is a problematic situation which requires a lot of care and balance to keep the melee spec relevant, why would we deliberately put another spec in that situation? We knew it was a bad idea before they even tried it.
You think new players are browsing forum threads like these?
New players arenāt shying away from the spec just because of player perception and that player perception isnāt unfounded in any case. When coming to the class a player is presented with a class heavily themed around a ranged weapon; the only class that uses them, in fact. We have one on the character creation screen, we start with one, and we get abilities that use it. At level 10 youāre then given the option of three different specs. Two of them use the ranged weapon and build on that core identity. The third arbitrarily eschews the ranged weapon and pursues a melee based identity just like the 12 other melee specs in the game. This is a very easy choice for the overwhelming majority of people who come to that point, and they arenāt avoiding SV just because people on the forums told them to.
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Itās not possible anymore, too much content has melee survival as baseline now for all the abilities in the expansions. Legion, BFA and SL.
If blizz wanted to, they absolutely could. Old content isnāt going to be what stops them from adding new stuff. Itās something they are going to have to address anyway at some point with Legion, and BFA / SL are not nearly as intrusive as Legion was concerning loot drops and what not.
Beyond that, I donāt think that really matters anyway as Iām not asking to remove current SV but add a 4th spec (per the topic)
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hmm id like to see Demon hunters get a Third spec where a Naru replaces the Fel energies in them with Light ā¦ and they still Melee attack to build āresource name hereā but all there abilities splash Holy energy that damages enemyās and heals allysā¦ so its a Dps Healing spec.
Iām into it, ranged Pally is also acceptable.
Like a Ranger? Iām in.
Sure why not, rocks are hard. Shammys like rocks. makes sense to me.
Iām sure this has been mentioned many time, but I thought the tanking spec will be cool for Shaman. Mixed bags of earth and water based abilities.