To top it all off, the female Night Elf model update made my Night Elf Female age about 20 years, she put on weight, her stomach and belly button were all wrong and very unlike what the Classic model was all about.
The new Night Elf Female still needs refinement, and they need to more closely resemble their original models, especially the faces and torso.
As a result, I jumped ship completely. Night Elf treatment in World of Warcraft has been pretty much opposite what it was in Warcraft III, where they were the most powerful race in the game.
Beautiful post.
I hate to play the other side of it, because I agree with you. That being said, in more lore than I can remember, elves tend to be the race that are targeted for elimination, slowly weeded out, or melt into the shadows. LotR, Dragonlance, Song of Albion, Shannara, etc. In most stories, they are the forstborn, the "perfect race", near flawless. In WoW lore, they are "civilized trolls". It seems that Blizzard is just following suit.
However, it is odd that new elven races are continually being implemented. Maybe in this case its just the Night Elves that are slowly being pushed into extinction?
Do this, but bring them back as "redeemed". Man, I'd love to see World of Undeadcraft. We have undead, banshees, liches, werewolves... add some vampires and they could make a killer WoW 2.
I hate to play the other side of it, because I agree with you. That being said, in more lore than I can remember, elves tend to be the race that are targeted for elimination, slowly weeded out, or melt into the shadows. LotR, Dragonlance, Song of Albion, Shannara, etc. In most stories, they are the forstborn, the "perfect race", near flawless. In WoW lore, they are "civilized trolls". It seems that Blizzard is just following suit.
However, it is odd that new elven races are continually being implemented. Maybe in this case its just the Night Elves that are slowly being pushed into extinction?
10/19/2018 02:51 PMPosted by TyrandiaThey will probably kill Tyrande and Jaina make them a forsaken too, just in spite of the Nelves/ally fans.
Do this, but bring them back as "redeemed". Man, I'd love to see World of Undeadcraft. We have undead, banshees, liches, werewolves... add some vampires and they could make a killer WoW 2.
i confess i imagined the storyline of BFA alone in my room in my home in minnesota in an alternate timeline about two or three years ago, maybe longer.
i am sorry that people don't like BFA's story and I apologize and will not hope that Blizzard magically telepathically listens to my fanfiction or ideas again, okay? I think that your average player is capable of more respect for night elves than i am because i am a fat dumb idiot who is cold hearted, night elves require fire in the heart to write for, probably. It's obvious that the way the storyline is going is unhealthy for the game. The Forsaken can't be allowed to get too strong or you'll have death and undeath all over the place and that would be pretty horrible. And I shouldn't have imagined the tree of Teldrassil burning would be a "cool idea for a memorable event to pair with the assault on Undercity" and then carried on with this night warrior nonsense.
I am happy to announce I have no further imagined events after the siege of zuldazar and night warrior stuff so I hope bizzard does something healthier with the story than listening to my dumb ideas. I thouht about going to Nyalotha next but I think that would be really unpleasant place to go, but I guess if you're going to kill Azshara and/or N'zoth you have to go there. If Blizzard does go there, I hope it's not underwater and they make it rise from the sea or something because I don't think most people like underwater questing.
i am sorry that people don't like BFA's story and I apologize and will not hope that Blizzard magically telepathically listens to my fanfiction or ideas again, okay? I think that your average player is capable of more respect for night elves than i am because i am a fat dumb idiot who is cold hearted, night elves require fire in the heart to write for, probably. It's obvious that the way the storyline is going is unhealthy for the game. The Forsaken can't be allowed to get too strong or you'll have death and undeath all over the place and that would be pretty horrible. And I shouldn't have imagined the tree of Teldrassil burning would be a "cool idea for a memorable event to pair with the assault on Undercity" and then carried on with this night warrior nonsense.
I am happy to announce I have no further imagined events after the siege of zuldazar and night warrior stuff so I hope bizzard does something healthier with the story than listening to my dumb ideas. I thouht about going to Nyalotha next but I think that would be really unpleasant place to go, but I guess if you're going to kill Azshara and/or N'zoth you have to go there. If Blizzard does go there, I hope it's not underwater and they make it rise from the sea or something because I don't think most people like underwater questing.
I mean, anyone who's not a hack writer would've managed to , you know, not absolutely destroy and ruin everything about the best written race pre-WoW.
But, with the current writing team you can't even expect a low bar like that.
Of course the fans of the writers will come defend them because apparently self inserting yourself as the boyfriend of your waifu in official material is life goals and something to be admired (instead of how creepy and bad it actually is) but anyone who actually has any critic ability would realize just how ridiculous the writing is.
At this point we can only hope things will change when the writing teams shuffle around.
It's sad how the small comics from HotS and the shorts from OW are telling a more compelling story ATM than the freaking flagship RPG of the company.
But, with the current writing team you can't even expect a low bar like that.
Of course the fans of the writers will come defend them because apparently self inserting yourself as the boyfriend of your waifu in official material is life goals and something to be admired (instead of how creepy and bad it actually is) but anyone who actually has any critic ability would realize just how ridiculous the writing is.
At this point we can only hope things will change when the writing teams shuffle around.
It's sad how the small comics from HotS and the shorts from OW are telling a more compelling story ATM than the freaking flagship RPG of the company.
10/22/2018 10:08 AMPosted by Averyxapparently self inserting yourself as the boyfriend of your waifu in official material is life goals and something to be admired (instead of how creepy and bad it actually is)
That literally ruined Nathanos as a character for me... I actually liked him before that, then it was just weird....
I swear I’ve seen this thread before
10/22/2018 10:15 AMPosted by MithrandysI swear I’ve seen this thread before
The original thread was started in the Story Forums but this one was created on General for more visibility.
Original thread:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769587656?page=1
10/22/2018 10:14 AMPosted by AkiyassThat literally ruined Nathanos as a character for me... I actually liked him before that, then it was just weird....
Being a cool undead dude who became the forsaken champion and treated players badly was hilarious. Now is just really creepy.
10/22/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Averyx10/22/2018 10:14 AMPosted by AkiyassThat literally ruined Nathanos as a character for me... I actually liked him before that, then it was just weird....
Being a cool undead dude who became the forsaken champion and treated players badly was hilarious. Now is just really creepy.
It just occurred to me, that if that writer thinks he's Nathanos, then Nathanos isn't really talking down to the players.
It's the writer himself who's talking down to us and getting away with it because it's "in character".
10/22/2018 11:44 AMPosted by MurdraIt's the writer himself who's talking down to us and getting away with it because it's "in character".
Pretty much. It's gross and it gives me so little hope for the future of this franchise and the Night Elves. This is why some of us so desperately want a blue to make contact with us here, because so many us just feel done with all of it. We're tired of being pushed around. We are tired of engaging in this masochism.
Honestly, Blizzard, I will write your lore for free and do a better job than your self-insert Sylvanas fanboy... Also, can we get a Blue in here?
10/22/2018 01:09 PMPosted by AkiyassHonestly, Blizzard, I will write your lore for free and do a better job than your self-insert Sylvanas fanboy... Also, can we get a Blue in here?
Here's the problem as a rundown as best I can figure.
If Blizzard cares, they don't show it.
If Blizzard does care, why don't they show it?
If Blizzard doesn't care, why do they show it so easily?
Also, if the statement, "Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by stupidity," is correct, it is far too accurate with the treatment of the Night Elves...
10/22/2018 01:12 PMPosted by TurginAlso, if the statement, "Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by stupidity," is correct, it is far too accurate with the treatment of the Night Elves...
Right, and over the last several years I have written things off as stupidity.
One of the most popular lore charaters is Broxigar, who appears in the War of the Ancients books.
So, in a book that should have been dominatly about Night Elves and Tauren, Blizzard instead time traveled a human and orc back to be the heros. Huln Highmountain is mention, but doesn't actually say or do anything. While Night Elves do quite a bit, it's all male night elves in positions of power, which at the time, Night Elves should have been dominatly female, both in terms of lore and ntended race design. And ultimately, Broxigar is the heroic figure that saved the Kaldorei from annihilation, which completely contradicts Warcraft 3 lore where Cenarius mistook Orcs as Legion puppets.
That is such a blunder in lore that it should be unforgiveable... But I got past it.
Then we had Stormrage, where we had many of the same issues with Broxigar's niece, random humans who are unexplainedly present, and what began Tyrande's decent into being a whiney co=dependent trophy wife to the all-powerful Malfurion.
Wolfheart, Strong female charater Maiev "goes crazy" and completely sh**ts the bed. Night Elves are portrayed as inept pacifists against Horde aggression, and only serve as damsels to be saved by Varian. It was also here where Velen vaguely suggested Elune was a Naaru, while not fully demystifying her, it started the discussion. Another hint at "Your lore is not your own. It's actually someone elses."
Then you have "Little Patience" scenario from Mist of Pandaria, and the Horde keeping Azshara after SoO.
WoD has Night Elves where Stormwind armor and colors.
Legion was the most Night Elves had ever recieved, and it was still ghosts of their past. Suramar, the birthplace of the Sisterhood of Elune is now a faithless, magic infested, cess pit of "No longer Nelves" That would later join the Horde and aid them in the Genocide of the Kaldorei....
That brings us to now, where how much can I just assume to be stupidity? At what point can I say this is intention deconstruction of this race? At what point can I assume this to be malicious?
10/22/2018 01:35 PMPosted by AkiyassThat brings us to now, where how much can I just assume to be stupidity? At what point can I say this is intention deconstruction of this race? At what point can I assume this to be malicious?
Can someone please ask this at Blizzcon? Or can a Blue can answer this now?
Either or.
10/22/2018 01:12 PMPosted by TurginAlso, if the statement, "Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by stupidity," is correct, it is far too accurate with the treatment of the Night Elves...
Right, and over the last several years I have written things off as stupidity.
One of the most popular lore charaters is Broxigar, who appears in the War of the Ancients books.
So, in a book that should have been dominatly about Night Elves and Tauren, Blizzard instead time traveled a human and orc back to be the heros. Huln Highmountain is mention, but doesn't actually say or do anything. While Night Elves do quite a bit, it's all male night elves in positions of power, which at the time, Night Elves should have been dominatly female, both in terms of lore and ntended race design. And ultimately, Broxigar is the heroic figure that saved the Kaldorei from annihilation, which completely contradicts Warcraft 3 lore where Cenarius mistook Orcs as Legion puppets.
That is such a blunder in lore that it should be unforgiveable... But I got past it.
Then we had Stormrage, where we had many of the same issues with Broxigar's niece, random humans who are unexplainedly present, and what began Tyrande's decent into being a whiney co=dependent trophy wife to the all-powerful Malfurion.
Wolfheart, Strong female charater Maiev "goes crazy" and completely sh**ts the bed. Night Elves are portrayed as inept pacifists against Horde aggression, and only serve as damsels to be saved by Varian. It was also here where Velen vaguely suggested Elune was a Naaru, while not fully demystifying her, it started the discussion. Another hint at "Your lore is not your own. It's actually someone elses."
Then you have "Little Patience" scenario from Mist of Pandaria, and the Horde keeping Azshara after SoO.
WoD has Night Elves where Stormwind armor and colors.
Legion was the most Night Elves had ever recieved, and it was still ghosts of their past. Suramar, the birthplace of the Sisterhood of Elune is not a faithless, magic infested, cess pit of "No longer Nelves" That would later join the Horde and aid them in the Genocide of the Kaldorei....
That brings us to now, where how much can I just assume to be stupidity? At what point can I say this is intention deconstruction of this race? At what point can I assume this to be malicious?
I meant the statement in many different ways, actually.
The problem is, while stupidity may be the symptom, it may have never been the cause.
The NE's as a race from Warcraft 3 were FUN, new, different, and utterly interesting in a way that was not seen before in WoW. The problem was, and still is, the disconnect between the Developers' Night Elves, and the Players' NE's.
To the Developers, the Night Elves are apparently a constant red shirt and damsel in distress. It's like in The Last Jedi not only is everyone inexplicably incompetent, there's literally no explanation provided.
When comparing movies, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is basically on its own level. The DCEU and Transformers franchises are the only close two as far as concept and scope go, and yet there's nothing meaningful as far as story goes from the second two.
The Night Elves in Warcraft 3 were in need of a slight power down, which the game made sense of through its story. The problem was, and still is, the translation of the Night Elf race into Vanilla World of Warcraft, and the treatment the race has had since then, in WoW.
First, the NE's were made too powerful, then, somehow, far, FAR too weak.
Why? Simple: the race's major elements of non-female units from WC3 were made a part of the Cenarion Circle and then never returned, as well as an entirely Neutral faction. The Druids, the Ancients, literally HALF the NE race, the male side, was just yanked away because... reasons? That were never covered?
Second, the NE's have been treated as Blizzard's proverbial punching bag ever since Vanilla WoW.
How can a race that once, before the lore retcon that was the War for of the Ancients book, single handedly held off the First Burning Legion invasion, fall so far, so hard, and so thoroughly?
Because Blizzard gives and takes away plot armor as it sees fit.
This is honestly the problem, and as I have posted elsewhere, the playable Night Elves in game are to me the race that I have access to. To the Dev's however, it would appear that ALL NE's are the playable race, despite not being linked with the Darnassian NE's whatsoever in most cases.
The problem is, and apparently will be for some time, the choices Blizzard makes to tell a story. And, by that, I mean that they continue to fail to convey a meaningful longterm continuity that is a single cohesive whole throughout the game.
The NE's were, and as I loved them in Warcraft 3, true BADASS !@#$%ES, and took no crap from anyone, and were still people despite all of that lore.
The inclusion of the NE's into the Alliance made sense; it was the handling of the aforementioned male side of the race being gutted and made neutral that should have been a sign of things to come.
At this point, I do not trust Blizzard to know how to handle the NE's. I do not see this changing any time soon if the current PTR is to be going live.
The rub is, and seems to always be, a series of data points I have noticed thus far:
- When players like a thing, Blizzard does not act like it cares
- The sacred Vision that is Blizzard's plan for the game cannot and must not change
- If the players disagree with the plan, it is either love it and play, or love it and leave it
- When Blizzard asks what people think, most often, people respond with how they feel
The only legitimate and logical thought process and sequence I can currently hypothesize of Blizzard is that, they made the NE race too good for their liking in WC3, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, and then kept nerfing...
Blizzard does not appear to comprehend what their own story requires as an RPG that has MMO elements. The RPG aspect of this game was gutted with Cataclysm, when Wrath was almost exclusively RPG features.
I do not expect this to change lightly or any time soon. The Night Elves are less than a shadow of a shadow of their once former selves, because Blizzard thinks it knows better than any given player what is best for said player.
And Blizzard's attitude is actually the problem.
I cannot force Blizzard to change. The company that once held to, "It's ready when it's ready," will either sink or swim by its principles and sticking to them, or failing to, and paying the price.
I honestly am nearly at, and starting to go into apathy towards the total crap-tastic writing that is the NE story since Vanilla.
FFS, Blizzard, Story First and Have fun, and not only Play Nice, Play Fair to your players, but to your own production of quality product!
10/22/2018 02:12 PMPosted by TurginThe problem is, while stupidity may be the symptom, it may have never been the cause.
have you seen when kids are impersonating the friend they dislike? That they do it with a funny voice and making them act dumb?
That's Blizz with the Night Elves.
10/22/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Sephiram10/22/2018 02:12 PMPosted by TurginThe problem is, while stupidity may be the symptom, it may have never been the cause.
have you seen when kids are impersonating the friend they dislike? That they do it with a funny voice and making them act dumb?
That's Blizz with the Night Elves.
Yes, and it's sad.
Blizzard is the single worst enemy of the Night Elves. And Blizzard is the one that invented what had been the single most original race of Elves since Lord of the Rings created the major two.
Night Elves are nocturnal Wood Elves, and yet, so much more. It's sad, really.
I honestly would have loved to know what J. R. R. Tolkien himself would say about the race Blizzard invented...
Completely agree, I hope that blizzard does something to stop using the Nelfs as their doo stick but alas I keep that hope at negative infinity, you can't write a good story when you are biased, when you take characters and insert yourself into them, once you do that you lower your writting to fan fiction and even then I've read better fan fiction than what comes out of blizzard.
On the book that came with the BfA Collector's Edition I didn't think the Night Elves were badly portraited. In fact it almost felt like they held the power of the entire horde with a skeleton crew (well, plus the half-god druid), since Anduin had been outmaneuvered by Saurfang and sent all his forces (including Tyrande etc.) to Silithus.
Don't get me wrong - I am in agreement that NE had been poorly written in some occasions, and despite playing a forsaken, I don't see how Nathanos would be able to survive an encounter with either Malfurion or Tyrande (much less both). The valkyries shouldn't be enough either. The fact he could flee, alive, was baffling. I almost feel like he fleeing was a (dumb, heavy-handed writing) miracle.
On counterpart, I believe Blizzard is trying to portray the NE as a beaten old race that is nowadays purely tragedy and nostalgia. Malfurion and Tyrande are pale reflections of their former glory and their love feels like the old grandpa and grandma that just got used to live with each other. I think the NE are cool looking as hell, I love the mounts and the lore from the original WC games, but their leaders are nowadays boring and their story feels to be reaching its end. I'm not sure if melancholy is the feeling Blizzard is trying to convey.
Don't get me wrong - I am in agreement that NE had been poorly written in some occasions, and despite playing a forsaken, I don't see how Nathanos would be able to survive an encounter with either Malfurion or Tyrande (much less both). The valkyries shouldn't be enough either. The fact he could flee, alive, was baffling. I almost feel like he fleeing was a (dumb, heavy-handed writing) miracle.
On counterpart, I believe Blizzard is trying to portray the NE as a beaten old race that is nowadays purely tragedy and nostalgia. Malfurion and Tyrande are pale reflections of their former glory and their love feels like the old grandpa and grandma that just got used to live with each other. I think the NE are cool looking as hell, I love the mounts and the lore from the original WC games, but their leaders are nowadays boring and their story feels to be reaching its end. I'm not sure if melancholy is the feeling Blizzard is trying to convey.
10/22/2018 04:00 PMPosted by DreygurOn the book that came with the BfA Collector's Edition I didn't think the Night Elves were badly portraited. In fact it almost felt like they held the power of the entire horde with a skeleton crew (well, plus the half-god druid), since Anduin had been outmaneuvered by Saurfang and sent all his forces (including Tyrande etc.) to Silithus.
Don't get me wrong - I am in agreement that NE had been poorly written in some occasions, and despite playing a forsaken, I don't see how Nathanos would be able to survive an encounter with either Malfurion or Tyrande (much less both). The valkyries shouldn't be enough either. The fact he could flee, alive, was baffling. I almost feel like he fleeing was a (dumb, heavy-handed writing) miracle.
On counterpart, I believe Blizzard is trying to portray the NE as a beaten old race that is nowadays purely tragedy and nostalgia. Malfurion and Tyrande are pale reflections of their former glory and their love feels like the old grandpa and grandma that just got used to live with each other. I think the NE are cool looking as hell, I love the mounts and the lore from the original WC games, but their leaders are nowadays boring and their story feels to be reaching its end. I'm not sure if melancholy is the feeling Blizzard is trying to convey.
That a race is being betrayed by those that made them is sad.
The problem is, I think as many others including myself are trying to convey is that Blizzard does not seem to know, let alone acknowledge the existence of their own lore now.
There once was a Blizz that would have actually cared how they handle every single playable race. That is no longer the Blizzard I thought I knew. And it sad.
There's really nothing meaningful to the race anymore, and it's a true travesty. The NE's were once a wonderful concept; whenever Blizz decided to go with their new plan of the NE's cannot do ANYthing AT ALL without help, they could have made that story compelling to me, as a player.
Blizzard has routinely failed to show WHY the Night Elves suck now. There is no clear cause, no clear here's the reason why, and yet, all we see are the symptoms.
I think the most telling point of the OP is what he typed up so well: a NOCTURNAL race, NIGHT Elves, are being out ambushed, at NIGHT, by a diurnal race. A race that is at its likely groggiest, up past Midnight, is doing better at night than a nocturnal active race.
How? Why? This is pedantic writing at this point.