In the short term the best thing they could do for Night Elves is to change that damn Night Warrior questline to where Tyrande and Malfurion annihilate the Horde and Nathanos just craps his pants and runs away because anything killed by a Night Warrior can never be raised again. Think about that last bit for a moment, the Night Warrior is to NElves as the Valkyries were to the Norse IRL, so the spirits of whatever they kill should be unable to return ever again. That would give a huge reason for the Forsaken to be afraid of Night Warrior-ized NElves and make NElf fans extremely happy.
Sorry. No.10/19/2018 12:03 PMPosted by NazjiraAfter all these years it's pretty obvious Blizzard is filled Horde biased devs who can't stop thinking about their precious Horde characters. They got to throw everything Night Elves are under the bus to make them feel better.
You have gotten so much to make up for Teldrassil:
-Access to DH, which the only other race that can use them is Blood Elves
-New Warfront based around your zone
-New Armor sets based around the Nelf aesthetic
-New Models for your leaders
-New Customization Options
-Updated Mounts
-Updated Nelf Zone
All you lost was your capital. Which you can just talk to Zidormi and go back to it anyways!
"But oh no! Nathanos raised two generals and they converted to Horde immediately regardless of their Free Will!"
It's not Free-Will. It's obvious at this point that Sylvanas is building up a second Scourge and is raising mindless undead.
"But Nathanos held his own against Tyrande and Malfurion!"
Know that Nathanos also had two valkyries supporting him in that fight and keeping him alive. But then had to flee because he lost one of those Valkyries, and wouldn't be able to survive.
This is coming from a player who started the game as a Night Elf, loves their lore, and has mostly Night Elf Characters on his account.
10/20/2018 01:22 PMPosted by GalahirIn the short term the best thing they could do for Night Elves is to change that damn Night Warrior questline to where Tyrande and Malfurion annihilate the Horde and Nathanos just craps his pants and runs away because anything killed by a Night Warrior can never be raised again. Think about that last bit for a moment, the Night Warrior is to NElves as the Valkyries were to the Norse IRL, so the spirits of whatever they kill should be unable to return ever again. That would give a huge reason for the Forsaken to be afraid of Night Warrior-ized NElves and make NElf fans extremely happy.
It's unfortunate when some player on the forums can take 5 minutes to come up with a better idea than a multi-million dollar company with a writing staff and years of development time can.
1 Like
What is left for the Night Elves now? Where do we live? There’s a handful in Stormwind trying to get a new Tree of Life going. There’s a few in Feralas. We have no cities. The worgen can at least pretend they have a home now and are blending in among the people of Stormwind.
Which is worth noting. Horde lost one capital. Alliance lost two (Night Elves and Worgen).
Which is worth noting. Horde lost one capital. Alliance lost two (Night Elves and Worgen).
1 Like
Hey everyone. Thanks for your posts as usual.
I think the last few posts have taken a turn towards the comparisons, which as I mentioned before, can be dangerous. Comparisons in order to determine 'who has lost more' turn into a bizarre competition of which I think little can be salvaged. It's why my post focuses a lot more on how the systematic degradation of Night Elven traits and places in the current story feel as opposed to comparing them to other races.
I say this because even a cursory glance would reveal that plenty of people have concerns and grievances all which deserve their own consideration.
Thus I remind you that doing those comparisons is at least not what I intended, I just want to externalize one experience, instead of seeking to invalidate others'. Not to say comparisons are out of place: they are not just necesary, but important in my point. But they have to be done carefully, with context in mind.
I think the last few posts have taken a turn towards the comparisons, which as I mentioned before, can be dangerous. Comparisons in order to determine 'who has lost more' turn into a bizarre competition of which I think little can be salvaged. It's why my post focuses a lot more on how the systematic degradation of Night Elven traits and places in the current story feel as opposed to comparing them to other races.
I say this because even a cursory glance would reveal that plenty of people have concerns and grievances all which deserve their own consideration.
Thus I remind you that doing those comparisons is at least not what I intended, I just want to externalize one experience, instead of seeking to invalidate others'. Not to say comparisons are out of place: they are not just necesary, but important in my point. But they have to be done carefully, with context in mind.
Great post, thank you.
The story line of this expac certainly isn't doing anything to protect the identity and security and love we have for our races, and our Factions.
The story line of this expac certainly isn't doing anything to protect the identity and security and love we have for our races, and our Factions.
We will never see the Night Elves of yesteryear again. We won't see the perfect soldiers that made Grommosh wet himself at night. We will never again see the savagery that the foes of the elves that have been fighting for 10s of thousands of years have been put through.
An Elune powered Tyrande, who was already a powerful beast, and Malfurion, THE druid not being able to take on a small force, with more Alliance (ha, ok, Night Elf remnants and some players) points to the whole fact that the writers are afraid to show what Night Elves can actually do as it would be such a one sided fight.
Fully agree with the original post, though. Was really hoping for a Night Elves to be brought back to the front for a reminder of what they're capable of.
An Elune powered Tyrande, who was already a powerful beast, and Malfurion, THE druid not being able to take on a small force, with more Alliance (ha, ok, Night Elf remnants and some players) points to the whole fact that the writers are afraid to show what Night Elves can actually do as it would be such a one sided fight.
Fully agree with the original post, though. Was really hoping for a Night Elves to be brought back to the front for a reminder of what they're capable of.
10/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Tiridan-New Warfront based around your zone
The warfront should have been Ashenvale since that zone has been contested since Warcraft 3 and would align well with the missions we've been sending our champions out on. Otherwise some of those missions might as well be non-canon.
10/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Tiridan"But Nathanos held his own against Tyrande and Malfurion!"
Know that Nathanos also had two valkyries supporting him in that fight and keeping him alive. But then had to flee because he lost one of those Valkyries, and wouldn't be able to survive.
And you should know that Sylvanas herself estimated that she had a 50/50 chance at best of beating either Malfurion or Tyrande (pre-power up) one on one, but would absolutely lose if she had to fight both simultaneously in A Good War.
Then Nathanos comes along and fights both of them and the only casualty is a single Valk'yr.
The same Val'kyr's that level 30 nobodies kill in Andorhal. So killing one now is not much of an accomplishment, which is why people have suggested having Nathanos actually die in his encounter with Tyrande and having one of the Val'kyr's sacrifice themselves to revive him.
10/20/2018 06:53 PMPosted by FirekatkidWe will never see the Night Elves of yesteryear again. We won't see the perfect soldiers that made Grommosh wet himself at night. We will never again see the savagery that the foes of the elves that have been fighting for 10s of thousands of years have been put through.
An Elune powered Tyrande, who was already a powerful beast, and Malfurion, THE druid not being able to take on a small force, with more Alliance (ha, ok, Night Elf remnants and some players) points to the whole fact that the writers are afraid to show what Night Elves can actually do as it would be such a one sided fight.
Fully agree with the original post, though. Was really hoping for a Night Elves to be brought back to the front for a reminder of what they're capable of.
I too agree that we are gone. It is so devastating an end and whoever wrote this part of the story for us is just callous and without feelings. It's hard to be motivated when your story is just awful and we are constantly punching bags.
I too, agree with the original post. Wish I could upvote more than once. I also expect silence. To get a comment from a blue, someone at Blizzard would actually need to CARE ABOUT HOW NIGHT ELF PLAYERS FEEL
Also, I don’t want to ruin the faction of other players, to destroy their experience or lore.
I want to ruin the faction of the devs. They obviously don’t care about the lore anyway. Make them realize what they’re doing to others. Maybe it will help them bring some balance to their writing.
I want to ruin the faction of the devs. They obviously don’t care about the lore anyway. Make them realize what they’re doing to others. Maybe it will help them bring some balance to their writing.
10/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by TiridanSorry. No.10/19/2018 12:03 PMPosted by NazjiraAfter all these years it's pretty obvious Blizzard is filled Horde biased devs who can't stop thinking about their precious Horde characters. They got to throw everything Night Elves are under the bus to make them feel better.
You have gotten so much to make up for Teldrassil:
-Access to DH, which the only other race that can use them is Blood Elves
-New Warfront based around your zone
-New Armor sets based around the Nelf aesthetic
-New Models for your leaders
-New Customization Options
-Updated Mounts
-Updated Nelf Zone
All you lost was your capital. Which you can just talk to Zidormi and go back to it anyways!
"But oh no! Nathanos raised two generals and they converted to Horde immediately regardless of their Free Will!"
It's not Free-Will. It's obvious at this point that Sylvanas is building up a second Scourge and is raising mindless undead.
"But Nathanos held his own against Tyrande and Malfurion!"
Know that Nathanos also had two valkyries supporting him in that fight and keeping him alive. But then had to flee because he lost one of those Valkyries, and wouldn't be able to survive.
This is coming from a player who started the game as a Night Elf, loves their lore, and has mostly Night Elf Characters on his account.
The problem with all of the listed things above (besides the new mounts) is while it all could be cool, a lot of it is just a reminder of the failures of the NEs through all of BFA.
For instance why would I want to use the new eye customization? We get absolutely annihilated in WoT, and than the tides of vengeance is Tyrande just.. yeah doing nothing and I'm suppose to want this customization? A literal sign of failure? No thanks..
The new warfront, so again we can fight Sira? If it was Belmont sure I could get behind it but with again failing during the whole night warrior quest chain it doesn't feel like a warfront but more of the Night Elves struggling to accomplish anything, and with the fact that it flips back and forth it doesn't feel good.
The armor sets? Yeah.. if they looked good I would probably enjoy them :S They look so bad though.
Updated NE zone. Are you serious? like literally? that would be like telling the Forsaken they get a new Undercity if the Alliance had cleared the plague and occupied it.. there's nothing cool about the updated NE zones FOR NEs
Mounts. Yay its something after all this bulls**t
I hate to be that "This is a gender issues" internet feminist, but it's a little weird to me that the race characterized by its strong Matriarchal culture and female warriors are victimized and told to be thankful for their "Phoenix rising" storylines, which women are so often given in film and TV.
For some reason, there is this idea that a woman can't be powerful without first being victimized. Victim of abuse or physical/sexual assault, or even something innocent as having a boyfriend cheat on her. Night Elf story telling as a whole seems to follow this same pattern, which turns me off of why I fell in love with the Night Elves in the first place.
Being victims is not empowering. We don't need to experience abuse to be powerful. We are powerful without that.
For some reason, there is this idea that a woman can't be powerful without first being victimized. Victim of abuse or physical/sexual assault, or even something innocent as having a boyfriend cheat on her. Night Elf story telling as a whole seems to follow this same pattern, which turns me off of why I fell in love with the Night Elves in the first place.
Being victims is not empowering. We don't need to experience abuse to be powerful. We are powerful without that.
10/19/2018 06:59 PMPosted by DarkazemaruThe way I see it, Blizzard have long seen something different in the Night Elves than the fans of them do.
Night Elves are past tense.
Night Elven stories are stories about the past. Old ruins, ancient enemies. Ghosts and memories.
Night Elven society is a fallen empire. They played a huge role all over Azeroth's past. But those days are over.
Those are the stories Blizzard want to tell... And it's really awkward that there are still living Night Elves all over the place. And that they were immortal and saw those ruins first hand in their glory.
And it's not like Blizzard are incapable of writing about a fallen empire reacting to their own fall from grace... that's the entire plotline of the Zandalari. But I don't think Blizzard wants to admit that the Night Elves ARE a fallen empire.
The burning of the Tree was the beating of a dead horse. They "lost everything" ages ago. It's not a plotline with any bite to it. A new scar to be treated as a big deal while ignoring ALL the other scars.
I really feel for you guys.
This game is filled to absolute busting with Night Elf lore, but it's all backstory with nearly no developments.
This sums up a big part of my feelings, to a T. I want to throw multiple likes at you and the OP (thank you for reposting this from the Story Forums).
Another problem I find about the upcoming content is that the story was only for the sake of a customization that no one even expected (there were requests to toggle silver/amber eyes), and some armour that look vaguely Night Elven. The moment where they get some development for the future, it feels like it was a half-hearted attempt to justify new aesthetics (I wouldn't say no one asked for, but they're also not at all flattering, and dare I say, terrible looking), and to placate the fanbase.
The whole development of the Night Warrior feels redundant already. There is no tangible feeling of "well this was a vast improvement" that allowed the Night Elves to perform differently than they could have before in terms of story. For all the hype it had, it is rendered as a non-issue threat, and gives no evidence of being problematic for their opponents. It serves no purpose in the end. Why couldn't they have forgone trying to find that McGuffin? It just makes it feel worse.
Like many have said, there are many ways the story of the Night elves could be headed for without the need to constantly paint them as incompetents or as punching bags. It almost makes it look like the devs are angry because some Night elf player camped their undead toon and are taking out their anger by doing this.
Blizzard, if you want to keep pretending to be in contact with your playerbase... Read your own lore. Do some research. We know you can come up with something better than this. Your fans are NOT happy, and last time I checked, Night elves were one of the most played races in the game.
Also bump for this post, a shame you can't upvote it twice.
Blizzard, if you want to keep pretending to be in contact with your playerbase... Read your own lore. Do some research. We know you can come up with something better than this. Your fans are NOT happy, and last time I checked, Night elves were one of the most played races in the game.
Also bump for this post, a shame you can't upvote it twice.
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If the only way for alliance to get some love is for the entire faction to unsub then lets do that. I wonder if all the horde fan boys think the game is still enjoyable when they dont have anyone left to 'zug-rush'.
I'd say that me unsubbing because the story is absolute madness is a good way of getting disengaged. I come from Moon Guard, a pretty heavy RP server with a guild filled with active RPers and raiders alike. With the way alliance has been !@#$ on, both story and gameplay wise this expac has had a good number of us unsub. We're talking 15-20 people just collectively agree that this has to stop. We're all on FF14 now, at least until they give us something.10/19/2018 02:46 PMPosted by FerlionNot to be a negative nancy...
But Blizzard doesnt care.
You are writing this from a place of hurt.
To them, you are invested, so they will hurt you.
You will write something out of anger, and to them, you are invested so they will consider it the way forward.
This isnt a mistake. This isnt Blizzard not resonating with their fans.
Blizzard does bad things to Night Elves because it gets fans upset.
It gets Horde fans riled up and mean and trollish.
And this is by design. Because people are engaged. You want change, then dont be engaged
If the only way for alliance to get some love is for the entire faction to unsub then lets do that. I wonder if all the horde fan boys think the game is still enjoyable when they dont have anyone left to 'zug-rush'.
10/22/2018 08:30 AMPosted by Brànna[code][/code]I'd say that me unsubbing because the story is absolute madness is a good way of getting disengaged. I come from Moon Guard, a pretty heavy RP server with a guild filled with active RPers and raiders alike. With the way alliance has been !@#$ on, both story and gameplay wise this expac has had a good number of us unsub. We're talking 15-20 people just collectively agree that this has to stop. We're all on FF14 now, at least until they give us something.10/19/2018 02:46 PMPosted by FerlionNot to be a negative nancy...
But Blizzard doesnt care.
You are writing this from a place of hurt.
To them, you are invested, so they will hurt you.
You will write something out of anger, and to them, you are invested so they will consider it the way forward.
This isnt a mistake. This isnt Blizzard not resonating with their fans.
Blizzard does bad things to Night Elves because it gets fans upset.
It gets Horde fans riled up and mean and trollish.
And this is by design. Because people are engaged. You want change, then dont be engaged
If the only way for alliance to get some love is for the entire faction to unsub then lets do that. I wonder if all the horde fan boys think the game is still enjoyable when they dont have anyone left to 'zug-rush'.
I’m had a daydream about Blizzcon. I was in a Q&A line, and I took the mic and asked “who here mains Alliance?” And no one raised a hand.
I turned to the devs. “So now what? You said the faction war was at the heart of WarCraft, but your blind hatred for the Alliance has caused the entire faction to quit out of apathy. Now what? How do you have a war with no opponent? Congratulations, the hate mongers have won. Now there’s no one left for you to spit on.”
And I just dropped the mic and left.
Night elves were my role model.
When I was little, at least. I grew up playing Warcraft 3 after my brother was given it one day, I thought it was great, but when the Night Elves came along I became super interested. I spent a lot of time after school playing that game and practicing and when WoW finally came out I fell in love with the forests and culture. Over time I became more and more invested in their story. The strong matriarchal society, the amazonian women who are fierce defenders of their homeland. The people who allow men to take a backseat when it comes to warfare.
It was so inspiring for a young girl, it made me feel tough. It made me feel like I had something to aspire to be. Sure, I'm a nerd or stupid for trying to be like a fantasy character, but it's what I latched onto. I can't help it now. Seeing Tyrande, the first female power lead lose to Nathanos after being hypercharged hurts. Not just the full wrath of Elune was brought down on some undead ranger, but the full strength of nature. Massive divine strength combined with all the power of the lands wasn't enough to take down goatee man.
I was fine with the tree burning, because hey! That's how life works sometimes. You take a few lumps, but you keep fighting. Losing over and over sucks though. Especially this way. The writing is ruining my role model and making them look completely worthless. I quite literally can't bear it.
As someone who was subbed since Vanilla day 1, I'm cancelling my sub until something is done about the writing or radically changes the gameplay. I love this game, I'd love to keep playing it, but I don't want my fantasy heroes treated like this.
When I was little, at least. I grew up playing Warcraft 3 after my brother was given it one day, I thought it was great, but when the Night Elves came along I became super interested. I spent a lot of time after school playing that game and practicing and when WoW finally came out I fell in love with the forests and culture. Over time I became more and more invested in their story. The strong matriarchal society, the amazonian women who are fierce defenders of their homeland. The people who allow men to take a backseat when it comes to warfare.
It was so inspiring for a young girl, it made me feel tough. It made me feel like I had something to aspire to be. Sure, I'm a nerd or stupid for trying to be like a fantasy character, but it's what I latched onto. I can't help it now. Seeing Tyrande, the first female power lead lose to Nathanos after being hypercharged hurts. Not just the full wrath of Elune was brought down on some undead ranger, but the full strength of nature. Massive divine strength combined with all the power of the lands wasn't enough to take down goatee man.
I was fine with the tree burning, because hey! That's how life works sometimes. You take a few lumps, but you keep fighting. Losing over and over sucks though. Especially this way. The writing is ruining my role model and making them look completely worthless. I quite literally can't bear it.
As someone who was subbed since Vanilla day 1, I'm cancelling my sub until something is done about the writing or radically changes the gameplay. I love this game, I'd love to keep playing it, but I don't want my fantasy heroes treated like this.
10/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by TiridanYou have gotten so much to make up for Teldrassil:
-Access to DH, which the only other race that can use them is Blood Elves
-New Warfront based around your zone
-New Armor sets based around the Nelf aesthetic
-New Models for your leaders
-New Customization Options
-Updated Mounts
-Updated Nelf Zone
-Access to DH: So, the Horde gets Demon Hunters in exchange of our City? You know how terrible that sounds?
-New Armor sets: So we have to lose a city to get armor sets.
-New models for our leaders: Ok, when are we destroying Silvermoon or Orgrimmar? I mean, Varok and Liadrin got a new model. Lor'themar is also getting one.
-New customization: When are we destroying Silvermoon and Orgrimmar, again?
-Updated Mounts: That the Horde can use. Man, I will continue losing cities and be kicked in the teeths for the Horde to get new things, too?
-Updated Nelf Zone: That the Horde can use too? Likely theirs? Nah.
And all that is supposed to make us feel good? It failed, hard, then... That's what Horde players expect us to have?
10/22/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Sephiram10/20/2018 01:41 PMPosted by TiridanYou have gotten so much to make up for Teldrassil:
-Access to DH, which the only other race that can use them is Blood Elves
-New Warfront based around your zone
-New Armor sets based around the Nelf aesthetic
-New Models for your leaders
-New Customization Options
-Updated Mounts
-Updated Nelf Zone
-Access to DH: So, the Horde gets Demon Hunters in exchange of our City? You know how terrible that sounds?
-New Armor sets: So we have to lose a city to get armor sets.
-New models for our leaders: Ok, when are we destroying Silvermoon or Orgrimmar? I mean, Varok and Liadrin got a new model. Lor'themar is also getting one.
-New customization: When are we destroying Silvermoon and Orgrimmar, again?
-Updated Mounts: That the Horde can use. Man, I will losing cities and be kicked in the teeths for the Horde to gets new things, too?
-Updated Nelf Zone: That the Horde can use too? Likely theirs? Nah.
And all that is supposed to make us feel good? It failed, hard, then... That's what Horde players expect us to have?
No. Horde players are upset we’re even getting this.
10/22/2018 09:20 AMPosted by WrathwindI love this game, I'd love to keep playing it, but I don't want my fantasy heroes treated like this.
This is a sentiment a lot of Nelf players share. I had a friend who left the game to play Nostalrius Classic Sever, and is now just waiting for WoW classic before they even CONSIDER playing again... because that was the only time the Night Elves weren't being brutalized, and being a Nelf fan wasn't embarrassing.