i hope they change writers because i don't want you all being unhappy, and apparently a different writer will hopefully be able to please you.
10/20/2018 01:42 AMPosted by Khroomi hope they change writers because i don't want you all being unhappy, and apparently a different writer will hopefully be able to please you.
Iâm really not that hard to please. Even with the overall low quality of the expansion (Iâm a huge fan of Legion and think BfA is a step down in every way, but thatâs my personal opinion), I was going to stay subbed for the story and because I could work on alts. But this story is just... Ugh.
I never wanted any part of the faction war story. I unsubbed as soon as it was announced, and resumed for Warbringers: Jaina, because it looked as though Blizzard would rescue the worst written character of the past two expansions and actually do her justice.
And they did. Everything in her story and Kul Tiras (except the Horde randomly popping up to harass half a city) was amazing.
This does not feel even close to the same team. Itâs a joke. Whoever wrote Jainaâs story, put them in charge of the Alliance stuff. Donât have her go back after what weâve had so far.
Really great post. Agree completely.
10/19/2018 06:59 PMPosted by DarkazemaruThe way I see it, Blizzard have long seen something different in the Night Elves than the fans of them do.
Night Elves are past tense.
Night Elven stories are stories about the past. Old ruins, ancient enemies. Ghosts and memories.
Night Elven society is a fallen empire. They played a huge role all over Azeroth's past. But those days are over.
Those are the stories Blizzard want to tell... And it's really awkward that there are still living Night Elves all over the place. And that they were immortal and saw those ruins first hand in their glory.
And it's not like Blizzard are incapable of writing about a fallen empire reacting to their own fall from grace... that's the entire plotline of the Zandalari. But I don't think Blizzard wants to admit that the Night Elves ARE a fallen empire.
The burning of the Tree was the beating of a dead horse. They "lost everything" ages ago. It's not a plotline with any bite to it. A new scar to be treated as a big deal while ignoring ALL the other scars.
I really feel for you guys.
This game is filled to absolute busting with Night Elf lore, but it's all backstory with nearly no developments.
They havenât been an empire since the war of ancients.
If you play WC3 you see this race of savage elves that defend their forests with complete ferocity. They scared the warsong clan into self preservation mode. They werenât an empire in wc3, just a group of elves fighting for their home and the natural world they inhabit. They were fresh and original.
I just think the writing team hates how popular they have been in spite of their efforts. Itâs not their idea in the first place, They want to control the story so they use the Horde to get rid of the elves they didnât come up with. Sick of it, they literally have nothing left.
The problem I'm having with Alliance story in Betatest for Azerite is that between 110 & 120, there's naught but side stories. The main story just plain doesn't resume until 120 & even then it's one entire quest chain & that's it. It just ends abruptly.
Then we go into Uldir with absolutely no reasoning as to why?
Oh, yay. Jaina is back in good with her mother & people of Kul Tiras? ...and?
Nothing at all comes of it! Exalted with the Proudmoore Admiralty? So what? No decent rewards, even!
Outside of the side stories (Drustvar, for example), this entire expansion has proven to be an unpolished turd. Right now, the ONLY thing keeping me playing is my guild. Without that, I wouldn't have even purchased the expansion.
Then we go into Uldir with absolutely no reasoning as to why?
Oh, yay. Jaina is back in good with her mother & people of Kul Tiras? ...and?
Nothing at all comes of it! Exalted with the Proudmoore Admiralty? So what? No decent rewards, even!
Outside of the side stories (Drustvar, for example), this entire expansion has proven to be an unpolished turd. Right now, the ONLY thing keeping me playing is my guild. Without that, I wouldn't have even purchased the expansion.
10/20/2018 02:54 AMPosted by AmaerThe problem I'm having with Alliance story in Betatest for Azerite is that between 110 & 120, there's naught but side stories. The main story just plain doesn't resume until 120 & even then it's one entire quest chain & that's it. It just ends abruptly.
Then we go into Uldir with absolutely no reasoning as to why?
Oh, yay. Jaina is back in good with her mother & people of Kul Tiras? ...and?
Nothing at all comes of it! Exalted with the Proudmoore Admiralty? So what? No decent rewards, even!
Outside of the side stories (Drustvar, for example), this entire expansion has proven to be an unpolished turd. Right now, the ONLY thing keeping me playing is my guild. Without that, I wouldn't have even purchased the expansion.
The main story was in Stormsong Valley, and preparing to fight Azshara.
Yeah. Preparing to fight someone OTHER THAN the actual enemy?10/20/2018 02:57 AMPosted by Tyriellais10/20/2018 02:54 AMPosted by AmaerThe problem I'm having with Alliance story in Betatest for Azerite is that between 110 & 120, there's naught but side stories. The main story just plain doesn't resume until 120 & even then it's one entire quest chain & that's it. It just ends abruptly.
Then we go into Uldir with absolutely no reasoning as to why?
Oh, yay. Jaina is back in good with her mother & people of Kul Tiras? ...and?
Nothing at all comes of it! Exalted with the Proudmoore Admiralty? So what? No decent rewards, even!
Outside of the side stories (Drustvar, for example), this entire expansion has proven to be an unpolished turd. Right now, the ONLY thing keeping me playing is my guild. Without that, I wouldn't have even purchased the expansion.
The main story was in Stormsong Valley, and preparing to fight Azshara.
The Herde attacks Brennadam & the most impact it has on the story is... Now it's a world quest!
FIST-PUMPING MOMENT, y'all!
/facepalm
10/20/2018 03:56 AMPosted by AmaerYeah. Preparing to fight someone OTHER THAN the actual enemy?10/20/2018 02:57 AMPosted by Tyriellais...
The main story was in Stormsong Valley, and preparing to fight Azshara.
The Herde attacks Brennadam & the most impact it has on the story is... Now it's a world quest!
FIST-PUMPING MOMENT, y'all!
/facepalm
The Horde arenât the actual enemy. Brennadam summarized them perfectly. Theyâre annoying pests who pop up, talk about how big and strong they are, make a nuisance of themselves for thirty seconds, but vanish as soon as you turn your back and explore the rest of the world.
Like here on the forums. âLol, Horde totally da bestâ. But as soon as you go out in the game, youâre blissfully without those pathetic grunts.
We never wanted the faction war. We still donât. And an enemy we arenât allowed to fight is not an enemy.
10/20/2018 03:56 AMPosted by AmaerYeah. Preparing to fight someone OTHER THAN the actual enemy?
If you think Azshara and the Old Gods aren't the actual enemy, you aren't paying attention.
It's 10 to 1 that N'zoth is the reason Sylvanas is on the throne. Azshara has orchestrated attacks on the loa, and her corruption of the Stormsong is the only reason the Horde was able to attack Kul Tiras. She even conspired to have Rastakhan killed.
In 8.2 or 8.3 we're going to discover that (shock, gasp) this entire war has been orchestrated yet again to serve the needs of malign powers, and we will learn nothing from it.
I would really like to hear from a blue on this subject. Just so we know this this sentiment (Which is shared among much of the fanbase, most notable the RP fan base) is brought to the attention of the Devs. Honestly, I have had friends leave the game because of this, and I don't blame them. It's almost as if Blizzard is slowly moving to deleting Night Elves from the game.
I mean... Even after the War of Thorns, have you guys realized the Alliance NPCs for the Horde to murder and brutalize are Night Elves? The Druids in the Undercity. The Sentinels in Drustvar (Which is literally the ONLY Nelf representation in Kul Tiras, and they have no interaction with Alliance players. There only purpose is to get killed by the Horde PC) And finally, the Darkshore Warfront, where Tyrande can only fight Nathanos to a Stalemate despite recieving a major power up, AND can't even stop the Horde from raising Night Elves into undeath... Who for SOME REASON join the Forsaken? Literally the side of their Murderers? Blizzard, come on... We're already dead. Just stop.
I mean... Even after the War of Thorns, have you guys realized the Alliance NPCs for the Horde to murder and brutalize are Night Elves? The Druids in the Undercity. The Sentinels in Drustvar (Which is literally the ONLY Nelf representation in Kul Tiras, and they have no interaction with Alliance players. There only purpose is to get killed by the Horde PC) And finally, the Darkshore Warfront, where Tyrande can only fight Nathanos to a Stalemate despite recieving a major power up, AND can't even stop the Horde from raising Night Elves into undeath... Who for SOME REASON join the Forsaken? Literally the side of their Murderers? Blizzard, come on... We're already dead. Just stop.
10/19/2018 02:20 PMPosted by TurginWriting is not exactly Blizzard's forte.
Not really. There are some pretty good writing on display in WoW.
The problem is the good writers seem to be doing mostly quests whereas someone else is controlling the main story arc.....that or they have too many writers working on the main arc and it's more of a story written by committee than anything else.
I don't like generalizing the writing as a whole as bad as there are good aspects that shouldn't be ignored because of emotion.
10/20/2018 05:00 AMPosted by AkiyassI would really like to hear from a blue on this subject
Indeed. I think OP made an awesome post. No ranting, not attacking anyone. And I am actually glad to see both sides are debating peacefully. Even agreeing.
I think, in my humble opinion, that this thread deserves a blue's post. Even though they are CMs (not the developers), it would be interesting.
I love my Night Elf, and much of what you say is true. Much of the problem is touted to be because the Horde wanted Kalimdor, but then the Exodar sticks out like a sore thumb an the same for north end o Eastern Kingdoms. I think Blizzard did the math and is utilizing least played areas and races for the big changes. Sorry.
My big problem is with making forsaken from Night Elves or any one for that matter. Why do they feel they owe alliegence to Sylvanas and the Horde? Does becoming undead remove your free will? What about the priest Foul, he seems to be independent of Sylvanas, and what about all the forsaken that tried to leave her and she killed them again?
We can only hope that all the Elves that excaped from The Burning will ban together and find a new home and place to grow. Perhaps Jaina will magic all the poison from the Undercity, the Elves will demolish it and plant a giant grove of enchanted trees in its place. A cool new enchanted forest to play in.
My big problem is with making forsaken from Night Elves or any one for that matter. Why do they feel they owe alliegence to Sylvanas and the Horde? Does becoming undead remove your free will? What about the priest Foul, he seems to be independent of Sylvanas, and what about all the forsaken that tried to leave her and she killed them again?
We can only hope that all the Elves that excaped from The Burning will ban together and find a new home and place to grow. Perhaps Jaina will magic all the poison from the Undercity, the Elves will demolish it and plant a giant grove of enchanted trees in its place. A cool new enchanted forest to play in.
10/20/2018 07:55 AMPosted by MystydawnWe can only hope that all the Elves that excaped from The Burning will ban together and find a new home and place to grow. Perhaps Jaina will magic all the poison from the Undercity, the Elves will demolish it and plant a giant grove of enchanted trees in its place. A cool new enchanted forest to play in.
If something can purify the land, it's Elune's light. It even purified Satyrs wich are transformed by the legion itself.
I think there's a Druid in Eastern Plaguelands also wanting to and assuring you that the land can be purified with Druidic methods. In time.
I guess Illidan also said Felwood was healing itself and the green of the place is Emerald energy, not Fel magic.
Anyway, while Druid magic might do it slower, Elune's light would do it pretty fast. But I doubt the NE will stick in Undercity. Something tells me that Blizzard will just leave it like that now that they got the idea of Bronze dragons taking you back in time.
That'd give them the perfect excuse to not relocate anybody and to destroy as much as they want. In some way its good, as you can go back to your favorite place if it's destroyed... But in other way is bad.
10/20/2018 05:00 AMPosted by AkiyassI would really like to hear from a blue on this subject.
I doubt we'll get a response over the weekend. In the meantime, keep this thread on the main page and maybe branch out to social media.
Give Tyrande power something like Almalexia from tes
10/20/2018 08:19 AMPosted by MurdraI doubt we'll get a response over the weekend. In the meantime, keep this thread on the main page and maybe branch out to social media.
It would be actually a good idea to branch out to social media or other forums. Since Ythisens pretty much said GD is not as important as other platforms.
But in all honestly as long as we have people like the guy who think's he's Nathanos on the writing team, it's always gonna be a clown fiesta.
10/20/2018 04:08 AMPosted by TyriellaisThe Horde arenât the actual enemy. Brennadam summarized them perfectly. Theyâre annoying pests who pop up, talk about how big and strong they are, make a nuisance of themselves for thirty seconds, but vanish as soon as you turn your back and explore the rest of the world.
Like here on the forums. âLol, Horde totally da bestâ. But as soon as you go out in the game, youâre blissfully without those pathetic grunts.
We never wanted the faction war. We still donât. And an enemy we arenât allowed to fight is not an enemy.
The Horde is the true enemy. Regardless of any other major powers who are more of a challenge, the Horde is the most evil thing there is. Even Sargeras had a larger purpose.
Honestly at this point the best thing we can do is just buy night elf players drinks, because it's not going to get any better.
It would be actually a good idea to branch out to social media or other forums. Since Ythisens pretty much said GD is not as important as other platforms.Which is funny, considering that their twitter just recently stated that the Warcraft forums are the best place for feedback. Seems like there's a total disconnect internally as well. In addition, the best place for dev responses are patch notes and Q&A panels. So essentially, we are talking to a brick wall in hopes that somebody on the other side of it hears us, because we'll never actually know until changes are already made. No open line of communication with the community. Just blind faith.
https://twitter.com/BlizzardCS/status/1052665554828443656
Hi everyone.
Thanks for keeping the thread alive. As I mentioned in my OP, I am not very capable of keeping it bumped and relevant. It's a task I cannot do alone. I appreciate people speaking their frustrations: remember the object of my post is to appeal to Devs' connection to the game, because they are fans, just as we are. Fans put in a compromising position as they are in a company that produces game and story that must obey financial and gameplay bottom lines.
That said, I think concerns tempered by the knowledge of context are still perfectly valid, and it's indeed a valuable tool if one knows how to handle it.
One point was raised here that I think is important to mention and I will expand upon later, mostly in the story forum post, since I think it's more relevant there: Imagine you are not a CDev, but their boss. Imagine your minion comes up, saying it could be worth responding to this.
Here's the problems you have to consider.
You risk spoilers: the response to a story concern is something that's dangerous in the sense it's a slippery slope to inviting unwelcome guesswork. Or perhaps, all too accurate guesswork, that ends up devaluing the story by having it be guessed by an outside element, rather than an in-game one.
You risk expectations: Blizzard says they care about their story. They must. Understand the allure of every new expansion announcement is a bit of "what new classes are there" but a lot more of "what happens next?". A response that neuters one of those expectations by answering it, can effectively harm the expectations of customers and hurt them in the end.
You risk looking aloof: Not to this sector, but definitely to others. I understand there are very serious, very grievous concerns raised by others about the state of the game, and personally, if I was running a videogame, I'd care more about the day to day functionality of the game itself, the operational part (All the Azerithe and stuff people keep talking about) as opposed to the long term, slowly cooking lore exposition. So responding to one such thing here, can seem to other groups like they are being ignored over a comparatively, less important matter.
You risk setting up expectations to something that's too late to change: To be honest, this is guesswork on my part. But I think it's been stated a lot of times before that the story of each expansion is written plenty of time in advance. Working on the assets, the music, the graphical and coding processes to change them might be an impossible thing, logistically speaking. We don't know if the model for the final boss is already created, and I sure as heck don't dare to do guesswork and demand it's reworked if it's something I don't like.
So with that in mind, you understand that the response to a concern like this has to be something incredibly measured, incredibly well timed, incredibly concise, and incredibly poignant. It might end up being too little to say.
Now, having just explained by the Blues have a very hard time deciding if it's worth to reply to something like this, I must insist it's still important that they do something.
The point of my post was to bring out how the story has treated Night Elves and their fans poorly over time. How it was not a single event that did this. It's the result of erosion by either neglect, disinterest, or simply focusing on something else that led to this and neglecting it further is exactly the problem. How to do it? I don't know. I don't claim to know everything, or know every solution here. I just know how I fee, have given a lot of thought on why, and can expand upon it to a certain point. I give ideas, but I don't claim them to be good, just points to consider.
I'm uncomfortable demanding things, or tossing ideas and suggestions for lore without knowledge of the context, future and present, that surrounds the story. For this, one must depend on the CDevs. But again, they've betrayed that trust again, and again and again, and it's time there's more than a 'just sit tight and wait' response. Acknowledgement would go a long way here, at the very least, unprecedented as it is.
But I could be wrong, and smart money is on their silence anyways.
Thanks for keeping the thread alive. As I mentioned in my OP, I am not very capable of keeping it bumped and relevant. It's a task I cannot do alone. I appreciate people speaking their frustrations: remember the object of my post is to appeal to Devs' connection to the game, because they are fans, just as we are. Fans put in a compromising position as they are in a company that produces game and story that must obey financial and gameplay bottom lines.
That said, I think concerns tempered by the knowledge of context are still perfectly valid, and it's indeed a valuable tool if one knows how to handle it.
One point was raised here that I think is important to mention and I will expand upon later, mostly in the story forum post, since I think it's more relevant there: Imagine you are not a CDev, but their boss. Imagine your minion comes up, saying it could be worth responding to this.
Here's the problems you have to consider.
You risk spoilers: the response to a story concern is something that's dangerous in the sense it's a slippery slope to inviting unwelcome guesswork. Or perhaps, all too accurate guesswork, that ends up devaluing the story by having it be guessed by an outside element, rather than an in-game one.
You risk expectations: Blizzard says they care about their story. They must. Understand the allure of every new expansion announcement is a bit of "what new classes are there" but a lot more of "what happens next?". A response that neuters one of those expectations by answering it, can effectively harm the expectations of customers and hurt them in the end.
You risk looking aloof: Not to this sector, but definitely to others. I understand there are very serious, very grievous concerns raised by others about the state of the game, and personally, if I was running a videogame, I'd care more about the day to day functionality of the game itself, the operational part (All the Azerithe and stuff people keep talking about) as opposed to the long term, slowly cooking lore exposition. So responding to one such thing here, can seem to other groups like they are being ignored over a comparatively, less important matter.
You risk setting up expectations to something that's too late to change: To be honest, this is guesswork on my part. But I think it's been stated a lot of times before that the story of each expansion is written plenty of time in advance. Working on the assets, the music, the graphical and coding processes to change them might be an impossible thing, logistically speaking. We don't know if the model for the final boss is already created, and I sure as heck don't dare to do guesswork and demand it's reworked if it's something I don't like.
So with that in mind, you understand that the response to a concern like this has to be something incredibly measured, incredibly well timed, incredibly concise, and incredibly poignant. It might end up being too little to say.
Now, having just explained by the Blues have a very hard time deciding if it's worth to reply to something like this, I must insist it's still important that they do something.
The point of my post was to bring out how the story has treated Night Elves and their fans poorly over time. How it was not a single event that did this. It's the result of erosion by either neglect, disinterest, or simply focusing on something else that led to this and neglecting it further is exactly the problem. How to do it? I don't know. I don't claim to know everything, or know every solution here. I just know how I fee, have given a lot of thought on why, and can expand upon it to a certain point. I give ideas, but I don't claim them to be good, just points to consider.
I'm uncomfortable demanding things, or tossing ideas and suggestions for lore without knowledge of the context, future and present, that surrounds the story. For this, one must depend on the CDevs. But again, they've betrayed that trust again, and again and again, and it's time there's more than a 'just sit tight and wait' response. Acknowledgement would go a long way here, at the very least, unprecedented as it is.
But I could be wrong, and smart money is on their silence anyways.