Exorcis raid tools is already set up to tell us what covenant a player has picked so we can see before inviting them
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Yeah, because the existence of two abilities uniquely interacting with an individual class in combination with soulbind modificaitons is definitely just “conjecture”… come on man.
What IS conjecture is that Blizzard will build on the system and inevitably increase differences between covenants. However, that seems pretty inevitable to me.
You have the right to disagree of course, but for the sake of discussion I will restate my arguments.
- I really don’t want another system where I feel compelled to “change talents” every time I do a different piece of content. If the option to change is there I will feel compelled to do so in order to remain competitive with other players. If it is not there then we are all in the same boat.
- I like the idea of sub-classes. The existence of sub-classes in the current iteration of covenants is a point of contention between us.
- I like the idea of our decisions being impactful on our game-play. Even if it is “negative” at times, the weight of having to have made and stick with the decision makes for an overall better RPG experience. Again though, this presupposes that there is at least some small measure of balance. And please don’t respond with, “you can decide not to change if you don’t want to” as that is an asinine response which shows a complete lack of understanding of the viewpoint.
- “Covenant and soulbinds are pretty complex systems and if they “pulltheripcord” it is just going to result in everyone always choosing what the top players say is the meta rather than getting creative with different playstyles.” This is again, another point of contention between us which we have already discussed.
Just because you disagree with me doesn’t mean my arguments are illogical and just because you personally don’t find them compelling doesn’t mean they are without merit. This is a very subjective subject.
Agreed. Pointing to classes is a great analogy. I wonder if those who want to pull the ripcord also want to be able to lvl up 1 character and be able to swap between 36 different specs at the push of a button.
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No, power would have to be involved.
The idea would be to have the ability to say “No guys I really don’t want to change to Venthyr for this scenario. But don’t worry I have a rank 5 night fae ability so we can just power through.”
Just to touch on your first point of reasons you like the idea of locked in choices. That sounds like a personal issue and not that of a gameplay one. The whole I would feel pressured to join another meta covenant by other players is a poor excuse as its not about gameplay or design but rather a flaw in ones personal character. If you fold to peer pressure thats a you problem not a game one
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If the game is designed in such a way as to pressure people to do something they don’t want to do, that is an issue with the game, not the players.
For example, the AP system made people feel forced to grind out a huge amount of AP each week even though they didn’t want to. Even though it didn’t really have a large impact on the actual game-play. Was that a problem with the game or was it a problem with the playerbase?
Also I was talking about feeling forced to constantly switch my “covenant talents” if the “ripcord” was pulled, not about feeling forced to play a particular covenant. My hope is that there are enough alternate merits to each covenant that people won’t feel forced to make their choice purely based off the class ability.
No it didn’t.
If you wanted the marginal power gains, you had the option to - but no one in my guild ever felt “Forced” to.
We also don’t feel “forced” to change talents or even specs now - this wouldn’t change in Shadowlands.
If players want to take the option to do those things, they can. But there is no sense of feeling “Forced” to do those things when you can 18 man the end Mythic Raid boss.
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You already covered everything my reply was going to be 
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Warcraftlogs is in the process of adding covenants to their tabs as well.
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Ye, stuff like this was inevitable. I just used RIO as an example cause it’s a bit more well-known than ERT and is in-game unlike WCL.
Sometimes having all available options at all times is bad. Failure to see this is…concerning. Good luck to you OP.
No, we know how to avoid slippery slopes.
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That’s a personal problem. You don’t have the willpower to say “no I think I’ll just stick with my chosen covenant”?
Covenants are not a sub-class. They will have class specific talents. It’s like a class add-on.
It’s not my fault you lack any sort of willpower to stick with your decision unless you’re forced into sticking with it.
How can you be creative with your playstyle when you’re locked in?
Your arguments boil down to: “I can’t stick with my own choice unless I’m forced to”
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Then why is it ok for tons of spells and talent trees to be locked behind a choice wall when it comes to classes but having 2 spells and multiple talent trees (soulbinds) locked behind a different choice wall bad? Seems like the same kinda thing
It’s not even close to being the same thing. Covenants act like talent add-ons for classes. I want to be able to switch between my paladin specific covenant talents at will, you know like how regular talents work. I’m not asking for warlock covenant talents on my paladin.
Understand this and you’ll understand #pulltheripcord
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We already made our meaningful choice. This new borrowed power system isn’t meaningful, and doesn’t even make a lot of RP sense. Thus we’re asking for a very specific change, and not for the entire game to be undone.
No they don’t. You want them to but they don’t. They act like classes with entire trees and abilities locked behind a choice wall
The trick is to invest in some good shoes with strong grip, and to be watchful of your surroundings.
It’s not.
Every ability I could get from Covenants is one that Blizzard have said is for Warlocks. If Blizzard unlocked Covenants, Warlocks getting Stealth and Rogues getting bloodlust isn’t the next logical step.
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You wouldn’t believe how hard it is to find non-skid Goat shoes. 
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No they don’t. They’re Azerite armor level at best.