Why on earth did this get flagged and hidden? I mean I know why. Gen Forums are petty and want to silence opinions they don’t like because scary, but c’mon.
So what you’re saying is you’re incapable of sticking with your decision unless you’re forcefully locked into it?
It’s literally the opposite of selfishness. Literally.
Apples and oranges. You have to pick a class before you can even play the game. This is nothing like that.
It is the “because I said so” argument. Which is childish at best.
This entire game is changing all the time. Do you hate it when a new patch comes around? Do you hate class changes? This is a fluid world and permanence would cause stagnation. Do you know why people don’t play the same single player game day in and day out for 15 years? Because it never changes.
Definitely one thing we can agree on.
There is no selfishness with choice.
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That’s true. I won’t change his mind or anyone else’s mind for that matter. I’m just enjoying pointing out the logical flaws in his nonsense.
Punishment is how you determine what a meaningful choice actually is. You learn from mistakes. What are mistakes? They are bad attempts or failed attempts. Something you value, why do you value it? You only know what you value because of things you don’t value, then form an opinion based from that and find things that don’t hurt you.
Sure. Are you going to walk 100 miles if there’s a car that works around you? Obviously not.
People will 98% of the time go the fastest and easiest route. It’s why we evolved and adapted. It helps us live and survive better. Also, an example of this is back in Legion. Blizzard gave players choice with AP; you can stop ANYTIME you wanted to, but did players? No. They grinded, grinded, grinded, grinded until they couldn’t grind anymore or until Blizzard stepped in. Safety things like this HAVE to be implemented in games because as has been said in that very pieces podcast episode; IF it’s possible, people WILL do it. They 100% agree, if it can be done, it can be done, people WILL do it. Thus why a lot of people do not like infinite grinding systems. They want stopping points.
It’s literally not the opposite of selfish. The cause/movement, yes, the factor/mindset behind the cause or the WHY, is selfish. Because the WHY is selfish, tehcnically that means the entire movement is selfish in that regard. Corruption breeds more corruption. That’s all there is to it. If something gets tainted, the entire thing ends up becoming tainted to most people.
I do not know how the “I don’t care.” argument fails to land here. It’s like your entire being is actually trying to black out what I’m saying and your mental stage is that of a 3 year old.
Cool! Good job, you can say all of that. However, I want the new system to be that of a permanent one, yeah? Awesome.
Never said it wasn’t, I’m just pointing out your side’s flaws, like your side loves to do with mine 100% of the time.
If there is someone who does not want to change and you’re forcing them to change, that is entirely being selfish because you’re making them do something you want them to do, without them wanting to do it.
Also though, the WHY behind your choice is what matters and what makes it selfish, not the fact that there’s choices. Just your motivation behind it all.
Stepping away now though, this is seriously killing me how people are failing to understand a simple concept. I either failed to explain myself 50 times, or someone needs to read more.
Nice way to prove my point. I don’t want a video game to mimic real life because real life has restrictions that cannot be lifted. Playing a game should be fun and not have near as many of those real life restrictions.
Which is a lot of nothing. No it’s literally nothing. You’ve not given one reason other than “because I want it”.
Again you typed words but said nothing.
My side doesn’t have flaws.
Literally nothing forcing you to change. Not sure why you keep saying this.
Choices = not selfish. No choices = selfish. Not a hard concept.
Be careful walking around that 10 tons of irony you left behind.
So it looks like it’s only going to take you 2 days, to go back to a covenant you left.
According to a wowhead article published today, which I’ll link, the ‘Prove your worth’ quest requires you to complete tasks in the zone belonging to the covenant you want to go back to, along with 8 world quests. Currently the ‘complete tasks’ section of the quest only gains completion by killing rares, but this is likely still being tweaked, so I’d wager dungeons and other non-world quest activities (like looting treasures) will also add to the completion.
As with anything in the beta, this is subject to change. Blizzard may change it completely between now and October. But 2 days seems like it could be a good starting point.
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Because it suggests that Blizzard will actually change covenants which they wont.
The covenants as a whole seem to be headed in this direction. No single part of the system makes a “sub-class” but taken together it may just do so. Especially further into the expac as they inevitably build on the system.
Ummm… see my original post. The reasons I am anti “pulltheripcord” have been the entire topic of conversation between us…
Unexpected interactions with different stat builds, mechanics, trinkets, other abilities etc. One example off the top of my head was something I believe warlocks discovered earlier in the expac where they took one of their lesser Azerite traits, triple stacked it with a minimum threshold of a certain stat and it ended up becoming their bis trait.
Okay okay, hear me out:
RP Servers can’t switch covenants willy nilly because your RP choice matters to you.
Normal servers can change covenant abilities like talents and do normal MMO things, like talent switching and experimenting with builds.
Boom, problem solved. Go RP with the other RPers.
#PullTheRipcord
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I’m anti pull the ripcord because I don’t know what the ripcord even is, and I sincerely doubt it’ll just be ‘sure dudes do whatever you want!’ It could be removing covenant powers as a whole and that would be awful.
I am, instead, pro changing covenant system for the better. If it was up to me I would let everyone choose any of them and they would have different graphics based on which covenant you chose (which is a permanent choice). So for example the blood mist DK venthyr ability would be a mist of fireflies for night fae, a holy white steam-like mist for kyrian and a plague looking mist for necrolords. Then soulbinds would have to be edited slightly to fit this.
This is pretty much what we are asking for, but failing that just being able to swap covenants in rested zones without punitive measures would also be fine or even just at the central hub.
Oh boy. lets have the poorly thought out story ruin gameplay. Jesus. Christ.
I really want to support casual players, I honestly do, but how can I when you’re so selfish?
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Sure I’m down for that!
They let us use the skills as a teaser for their covenant, you get a taste of each before making your decision.
Not really though. Things such as arena, rated pvp and raiding all happen after cap and thats after you are forced to make a choice. You will have 0 idea how those abilities will work in that environment
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I’m not claiming otherwise. I’m just saying they are there to give you a small feel about how the skill plays like.
In fact, the reason I play video games is so I can feel bad and regret my choice that punishes me dispropotionately and hinders my enjoyment of the video game. If a game doesn’t make me missrable about my decisions and lets me change them after I’ve realized my mistakes, it’s a bad video game. You hit the nail right on the head, sir.
Ah yes, the real heroes in Blizzard, making people grind daily because if they don’t, they fall behind considerably, and then saving us from their own systems by fixing them. How about you don’t make people have to play around dumb systems in the first place?
“I want, for me and only me!”
You’re making up flaws that “help” your case and inserting them into arguments that don’t have those flaws.
And who’s the forcing one and who’s the victim? This argument keeps falling flat on it’s face, it gets repeated to hell but never a single example of those poor players who don’t want to do something being forced into doing it by other players.
You have failed, yes.
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Well, healers don’t really get to test much of anything, same for tanks. And you’re testing all of the abilities on the same environment, that being just open world and maybe a normal dungeon.
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I’ll still try out my skills as tank also!
Healers would get gipped I’d agree.
You can’t reasonably argue that people should change specs and roles in every zone to test every ability. And the fact that you can test tank skills doesn’t really matter in open world. A tank spec can pull 50 open world enemies and not die without breaking a sweat. You can’t test survivability value of abilities until you get to fight something that actually slaps you hard.
That sort of applies to DPS abilities testing on open world as well, because the enemies are often so weak that even my regular abilities are overkilling them. Leveling as affliction warlock, even in normal dungeons I couldn’t get full value of my abilities because everything just fell over in a few seconds.
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