It’s not necessarily about conforming. It’s enjoyable to simply see people be punished for trying to have flexibility.
Pot callin’ the kettle…
This isn’t a concern - I was simply stating a fact.
I’m also anti-“pulltheripcord”, but that’s because I find value in those casuals being punished for not sticking with one covenant and wanting to play across multiple content/spec/role combinations.
Because all of us that don’t no life enough to have one per covenant of our preferred classes get caught in the being worse for no reason result of these.
What? Are you serious? RPGs are MADE for that kind of thing…
1 Like
Ready?
I think this says enough about it.
More evidence.
Again, here you go.
Spoiled, again, cause of ease.
Aight, I spent 5 minutes on that, done now. There’s my workout for the day.
For the billionth time, nobody is asking for this. People just want player power to not be tied to covenant choice.
There are many ways to achieve this without making covenants swappable, you could:
- Have all the abilities be their own talent, with different graphical animations based on your covenant
- Get to choose your abilities separate from your covenant, have them tied to some other nonsense.
- Have the abilities tied to a separate neutral NPC not associated with any 1 specific covenant.
People say “we want swappable covenants”
What they mean is “we don’t want player power tied to covenants, or we want to be able to swap the abilities”
3 Likes
Whether they last for 2 years or 10 is irrelevant. Sometimes you make a choice for reasons other than just pure output. You made that kind of decision when choosing your class for the expac and you can make it when choosing your covenant for the expac.
But they ARE part of a larger system that does.
I, and others, disagree. Please don’t state it as objective fact when this is a very subjective situation.
How people play their classes and use their abilities determine how those sims are designed. They’re not magic. If someone finds out a new way to use something that wasn’t previously considered by the sims coder then it is entirely likely that the sim will in fact be inaccurate until it is updated. So yes, ability “B” CAN start doing better despite the sims.
In fact the mindset that the sims are infallible is imo a huge problem in and of itself.
I’m all for punishing players for switching and am against the #pulltheripcord movement.
But I think calling them “spoiled” isn’t accurate.
The ability to switch freely isn’t a matter of being spoiled. The hardwork behind being optimal is knowing each spec/role/encounter and having already grinded through getting the armor, weapons, trinkets, consumables for each combination.
If covenants were easy to switch - the bulk of the hard work is still in place. No one is asking for the hard part to be removed.
RPG’s invented the concept of min-maxing.
2 Likes
I just think consequences of your action as the player is a key element in a rpg. You should be bound to choice if you choose poorly oh well thats the consequence part.
Not saying you shouldn’t have a way out of that choice but it should require some doing…some work.
I’m really anti pulling it, I just don’t see it happening until the second patch when the story shifts from the Covenants being at ‘war’ or ‘Anima starved’ after the first raid. I see what they’re trying to do storywise, so when we (the PC) fix the initial issue in the Shadowlands, it would make sense to breakdown the restrictions.
Like, look how they handled Azerite armor. I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect Blizzard to pull it in the first patch.
I called them spoiled because they want to swap freely. The aspect of an MMO is this: Strengths and weaknesses encompass everything you do. FF ruins this with one character can do everything, but they also show it too in that…I’m sure you cannot be everything at the same time, right? You have to pick, but that one single toon can be multiple things, just not all at once. You cannot be a red mage if you’re currently a white mage, or am I getting the FF thing wrong entirely?
Anyways, point is; this design goes against the flow of what MMOs should be. You have designed systems where it’s balanced around multiple people with each person picking something. IE: a ST spec mixed in with an AoE spec, mixed in with a cleave spec. Your group is now all around good because you got someone who can do the thing, for all the things.
I call players spoiled when they want to do literally everything on the same character. I don’t think letting people do everything is good design because there should always be strengths and weaknesses. The entire point of an MMO is to find people who make up for what you lack. Single player is where the design of everything on the same toon would be better accomplished because you are not grouped up and since you are solo, you have to do everything yourself.
If I’m playing ST, does it feel bad that I cannot do as much damage or as good damage as that AoE dude in an AoE environment/fight? Yes, it does! But, that’s also what I considered when I chose to pick an ST toon, too. That’s also why you make other characters if you want to do everything and just see if you can swap toons.
Good design is always balance. ST loses to AoE/Cleave on non-ST fights. That’s how it should be, should always be. AoE/Cleave should always lose to ST on ST fights. Doesn’t always pan out because of a thing called player skill, RNG, and other factors, but putting two equally skilled, geared, etc players against one another that’s what should happpen. How much should you lose by is where people get really upset, though, because some of those numbers can be like 40% difference. I can understand that, but that is also where the devs can balance things.
Back to the point though; no, players should NOT be able to do everything they want on that one single toon. That’s not good game design, imo. WoW wasn’t designed around that and never will be because they don’t believe in that either. That’s also why they stayed at the top for so long too.
This is what it really boils down to many of them, especially the vocal ones on this forum. You aren’t going to change their mind, and currently Blizzard seems to think they’re the clients that should be satisfied.
Its not a lore choice though. The lore impact isn’t significant, but the mechanical impact is. And that mechanical choice will force some to go against their biggest lore choice… their class.
Again, swapping is easy. So players wanting that doesn’t really make them spoiled when the hardwork necessary still exists.
They’re not asking for all the covenant benefits at the same time, they just want to change freely and be one or the other without a charge or timegate.
That’s your opinion - but that opinion makes more sense in relation to single player RPGs, not MMOs. Especially MMOs with so many levels of difficulty and types of content.
Again, that doesn’t make sense when the hard part of being able to maximize performance across a classes specs still exists.
Exactly this. We’ve been the ones messaging them the most on reddit, these forums, and twitter. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Anybody remember when Burning Crusade launched? We had to pick between the Aldors and the Scryers.
I don’t remember anywhere near this level of panty-knots, hand wringing, and pearl clutching.
What has happened to people? The level of entitlement and outrage over nothing has gotten crazy.
What part of the Aldors and Scryers directly affected player power with the chance said power/ability after investment could be subject to change. Last time I checked in BC player power was still tied to gear.
It doesn’t make sense to you in what way? Why should you be able to do literally everything on one character? Explain to me why, outside of an Ego trip, players should not be limited? Also, how would you know what is good if you do not first know what is bad?
Yes, convenience and ease happens. Time happened, too. As a lot of players when this first started, I would predict that the majority of players were in their early-late teens, maybe 20s at most. Now, they’ve got jobs, families and other adulting things to do. Convenience plays a big role in that because “I don’t have time to do raid this morning.” etc.