Baine will always the ultimate Jaina simp and alliance apologist. that is his only purpose.
… The WotLK questgiver? An NPC who functionally wasn’t even a real character until a random alliance-only quest used her to flesh out Shandris a bit before killing her off? How did you get attached to that?
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He does that….a lot. He takes the most obscure and one note characters and latches on to them for dear life
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That whole plot point just makes Jaina seem even dumber and more vicious.
She had first hand knowledge that the Bloodhoof tauren weren’t okay with Garrosh’s actions, and lost their legendary chieftain due to him confronting Garrosh over Ashenvale.
So what does she do weeks later? Sign off on slaughtering Bloodhoof villagers while funding the Grimtotem. Instead of actually meaningfully going after Garrosh or directly aiding the nelves.
But then again she showed no signs of caring about what happened in Bael Modan. Her reputation has really coasted off that one incident in WC3 for years.
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Just feels like if the sides were reversed we’d still be hearing about how Baine betrayed the trust of Jaina and Anduin by exploiting the weakness he had been told about and arming the enemies that attacked them.
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Well of course, the Baine → Jaina/Anduin relationship goes only one way.
The absolute most either have done for him after this was rescuing him after he was imprisoned for helping out Jaina’s brother.
Both have signed off on destructive acts against his people even while he’s pissing off his own Braves for not wanting to retaliate.
Baine gave Anduin his horn mere days after Anduin and Tyrande were dictating how best to attack his group going down to Silithus.
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Who decides that Shandris is more important then Areiel? Why are Horde NPCs constantly being kiled off just because Blizzard is keen on getting ritt off all our RTS personalities? The unfairness needs to stop.
This doesn’t read well followed by:
Are you telling me you think the bombing of Theramore was justified while the Purge of Dalaran wasn’t? I hope I am reading that wrong.
You can’t really say bombing Theramore was just a retaliation for events in a war Garrosh started and the Sunreavers using Dalaran in the war effort was not justification for the purge. You can’t have it both ways.
Both were bad things. I don’t think anyone can argue either was entirely okay. But I don’t think they are equal either. Nuking a city IS worse than exiling a military organization, even if it was done poorly. So, you can’t really call the worse one justified and the Purge not.
That is not accurate. It was Lor’themar that was trying to dislodge the Blood Elves for Garrosh. And arguably Aethas made that harder by not telling Lor’themar the truth about the Sunreaver involvement.
At the very least, we know she did to Thrall. In person, not a letter.
And she literally turned herself into her mother to face any judgement for the wrong she did them. You can’t say she didn’t apologize for anything.
Back to this. It was bad. There is no question.
There is a legitimate argument that expelling the Sunreavers was the correct choice. If Garrosh used them once, he would use them again. And it was proven that at least some of them would go along with it. The only maybe was maybe you could find all the people responsible and maybe you could stop them next time. Those are big questions to leave open in a war in which Garrosh was actively looking for weapons that could end the world.
The problem is both Aethas and Jaina handled it badly. Aethas lied and decided to make it a fight. Jaina turned much of it over to an organization she should have known would go to an extreme. People died. Not as many as some like to claim. It was not a genocide. The vast majority were just kicked out or imprisoned for a time. But, innocents did die, and that should not have happened.
It was handled badly all the way around.
Draenei were VASTLY outnumbered by the Orcs. Most of there population was then killed, see the road in Hellfire made from their bones. Not all the survivors even escaped Draenor. And many died after arriving. Orcs VASTLY outnumber Draenei on Azeroth.
Excluding all the people you don’t like doesn’t make what you said correct. And it is still a you problem.
I mean, other than the fact that the Sunreavers, as an organization had nothing to do with the theft of the bell.
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Which gets conveniently overlooked while people try to desperately defend jaina’s actions
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She didn’t. Aethas did. And that is the problem. The victim of the ethnic cleansing if being portrayed at fault here which gives bad vibes to real people who suffered genocide.
It was the PC and Fan’lyr Silverthorn who is part of the Reliquary.
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I will be happy when the Horde council finally pays for their crimes and get executed full stop while the RTS characters come back to us as it should have been from the start.
Yes they did. Sunreavers were involved. Sunreaver portals were used. The leader of the Sunreavers was aware of what happened. Pretty hard to claim the organization was not involved.
It wasn’t every Sunreaver, sure. But it was the organization.
And to compare. It is possible that nobody involved in the raid on the Tauren or even anyone that knew about it ahead of time was even in Theramore at the time of the bombing.
It is a goose/gander issue. You can’t say Theramore’s bombing was a justified response to an attack made during a war (that Theramore did not start) while also saying that the Sunreavers being expelled was not justified for their actions using a neutral city not involved in the war.
The Sunreaver purge was the lessor crime triggered by actions involving a non-warring party. To claim that was not justified and to then say Theramore’s bombing, the larger crime, was justified by actions between two warring parties is a stretch at best.
First off: It was not an ethnic cleansing. It was the expulsion of a military organization, not an ethnic group.
Second off: Aethas was guilty of exactly what Jaina accused him off.
So, you will be happy when Horde characters are killed for the ‘crime’ of wanting peace. Yah, you need to walk away. That is never going to happen.
Theramore was the only Alliance port on Kalimdor not owned by the nelves and was pointed right at the neck of 2 of the og horde races.
Its existence basically revolved around keeping good relations with it’s neighbors. Thrall was willing to forgive her for the Fort Triumph sneak attack and Varian kidnapping him. But slaughtering the Tauren and trying to raze durotar was a bridge too far for even him when she went to him after Theramore.
Meanwhile the Purge was literally targeted at civilians, Jaina gave a bitter group of murderers a blank check to kill whatever shop keeper or civilian they wanted and showed 0 remorse for the excesses of it. Oh, and the vast majority of her victims were actively working to switch sides
you have not done the Horde Landfall quests, lmao.
What does that have to do with her being utterly remorseless for the pile of innocent deaths she’s responsible for? Apologizing for not taking her idiot bigot dad’s side when he was trying to push her refugees into a hellwar doesn’t endear her to me.
This really reminds me of 90s era “no tolerance” bullying rules in schools. Yeah sure Jaina is responsible for a massive betrayal of his people and had no qualms with the horrific acts Veressa did, but he didn’t act perfectly when he saw something going on in between diplomatic sessions with Varian so he’s equally at fault.
You are 100% right on this. Slow breeding Draenei population + most Draenei enclaves being raided means they should be a very small population.
Orcs have the population that went to Kalimdor with thrall, the groups that stuck in the EK doing their own thing like the Dragonmaw and Frostwolves, the Mag’har, and whatever fel orcs were able to be deprogrammed once Illidan was ejected from outland.
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There is no both sides. The quiet kid has the right to fight back and teachers trying to save the bully need to shut up.
Were they? Wasn’t it a reliquary agent, and the other belves were “silvermoon mages”?
And? What is required to make a Sunreaver portal, or a portal that appears to be one? Remember that part of this was to frame the sunreavers b/c Garrosh was aware of Lor’themar’s talks with the alliance.
Only after the fact.
Wrong.
Theramore was the literal base that the invasion of the Barrens was launched from. If anything was a “Valid military target” it was a fortified port with easy access to two capitols that had already been used to launch attacks.
You do know that the Alliance struck first in Kalimdor right?
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they gutted shopkeepers in their homes my dude.
this was not going and raiding a military base, this was posting proscription lists of everyone Veressa wanted gone.
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But you see, because the alliance group was a paramilitary hate group dedicated to pushing out the other from Dalaran, that means the horde group run by the biggest Dalaran fanboy in the universe must also be the same, and not just a way to try and get more belves to like Dalaran.
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Invading the Barrens to install a fortress attempting to split Horde territory and kidnapping Thrall was just a big ol’ goof.
Just like when they tried to wipe out hundreds (if not more) of goblins and laughed about the idea of the orcs starving to death even while Thrall is trying to save the planet. Just the Alliance being silly, the Horde clearly didn’t know how to take a joke
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