To subvert or not to subvert

TL;DR You just want the Alliance to be pure evil monsters, and the Horde to be the pure good defenders.

Projection, another Varodoc classic. Not a single person here is either saying that outright, or implying it.

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More proof that the masses are easily enthralled by good looks and a pretty voice.

Forsaken fans :handshake: Daenerys/Targaryen fans: Justifying a war criminal just because she has a pretty face and voice.

The fact is, there was absolutely no way that Sylvanas would be proven right.

Gee. I have no idea how that feels at all. How tragic.

You know what we can’t go round and round about “Oh, horde did this bad thing and the writers made some ridiculous changes so they didn’t actually do a bad thing” because that never happened. Unlike any time they alliance looks like they maybe were in the wrong some book or quest comes out to explain why it’s actually a good thing.

A jerk who worked at the company and got into a position of power abused it to score points against people he had grudges against no matter how little sense they made or how well it fit in with already released content.

More proof that the masses are easily enthralled by good looks and a pretty voice.

I’ll repeat what I just said.

Projection, another Varodoc classic. Not a single person here is either saying that outright, or implying it.

If you don’t love Patty Mattson, than you’re simply not a WoW fan. I don’t know anyone who actually dislikes her. She’s an amazing voice actress :dracthyr_nod:

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Don’t twist My words. Let’s not joke here, never have I gone after the real people behind these characters.

The fact is, Sylvanas was always going down a certain trajectory, and if you deluded yourself into thinking otherwise, you were simply blinded by her good looks and voice.

Again, I can’t but point out the glaring similarities to Daenerys stans. :grin:

No, you wouldn’t. As the there has never been a patch in a faction conflict expac with a patch that did not have any Horde content.

I don’t know if the Sylvanas turn to full on evil was entirely his doing or not. Maybe it has been in the works for a long time. Maybe he was most of it, maybe he was some of it. That isn’t really relevant to what I was saying.

Look, maybe if I explain it another way.

If you say: You didn’t like the Sylvanas arc. That it did not make for a good story and should never have happened.

I would 100% be in agreement. I think Sylvanas story has been bad and created narrative problems for a long time before BfA. I absolutely think they took her down a wrong path. Whatever the behind the scenes reason was. I 100% agree it was bad story telling. I am not arguing it was good.

What I am saying is that her story arc is what made them decide to have her start the war. It had absolutely nothing to do with ‘protecting the Alliance.’

Really, I think the idea of a faction war was always a bad idea. None of it should ever have happen. It was never going to lead to a satisfactory conclusion. And more than that, I think the also took a fundamentally flawed approach to how they did it, making it even worse.

Garrosh story arc was boring and predictable. Sylvanas was a mess of contradictions, plot holes, plot armor issues, and narrative WTF moments. They were bad. The arcs being bad just had nothing to do with the Alliance.

Oh, she is an amazing voice actress. I have never seen anyone fault her performance. The issues with Sylvanas have always been the writing.

Wonderful actress, well performed role, failed by the writing. Yep.

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Nah.

Sylvanas was always going down a dark trajectory. In WC3, Varimathras pointed out that she was becoming more and more like a Dreadlord. Followed-up by Vanilla where the Forsaken were openly experimenting on living beings to create a doosmday weapon of evil.

Yet people didn’t want to see it. How could Sylvanas be Garrosh 2.0, they said. Hm, I wonder.

Same thing with Daenerys. Season 2 Daenerys: “I will take what is mine, with fire and blood I will take, we will lay waste to our enemies and burn cities to the ground!”. Daenerys does exactly that in S8, people are Pikachu-faced.

The moral of the story is: the sheeple/normies are easily blinded by good looks. But not I, I see through the good looks.

I dunno if it really matters if Sylvanas was “destined” to go down a certain direction when they already told a horde civil war story through Garrosh first. I think they should’ve pivoted instead, if just because the game wasn’t actually doing anything new by repeating MoP but doing it worse.

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I agree, which is why there should have never been a civil war, because why would an Hordie side with Sylvanas and the Forsaken?

You people “kind of forgot” that the Forsaken never cared about the Horde as anything more than a convenience tool for protection from the Alliance and the Scarlet Crusade.

Look, I get that trolling horde players has been your shtick ever since you started here, but I don’t need the implicit insinuations of stupidity or ignorance over a period of WoW’s storytelling that was already miserable and hope-breaking. I don’t think I’m wrong for wishing I got something better than what played out.

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Well, yah. But to be fair none of the conflicts with what I said. :wink:

Both actresses were failed by the writing.

Also, both had a sudden heel turn. Of course Daenerys heel turn was into being bad, Sylvanas was turning against the bad guy.

Not a single thing on the Horde side can be considered as “miserable and hope-breaking” as the Alliance quest were you inevitably fail to save all Teldrassil civilians. Not one. The Alliance got an entire quest whose sole goal was to make the Alliance player feel hopeless, powerless, and defeated. The Horde never got anything like that.

What do you mean “hope-breaking”? You were literally the side trying to kill hope. Is this a joke?

I guess I should’ve left in the original phrase “immersion-breaking”. I was talking about hope for an enjoyable story.

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Actually try playing BfA horde side instead of taking bad notes off biased YouTube videos and you’d understand what people are talking about

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I certainly know that when the fierce warriors who have been holding you back with massively inferior numbers all die with pathos filled statements about not hearing birds, or just wanting to be home, that’s certainly fist pumping action and doesn’t feel at all like the writers are shaming you for the story they wrote.

Show Me the quest where the Horde player has to try to save as many civilians as possible, knowing that it is not possible. Show me a quest whose sole purpose is to make the Horde player feel miserable, powerless, hopeless, and defeated, all four at the same time.

From Official WoW, please. Not from your fanfiction on ao3.

Hordeside War of Thorns was written to shame the horde player.

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Actually try playing BfA horde side

By doing this he’d have to actually put forth effort into playing the game instead of whining on the forums, he can’t do that, now. Whining on the forums is much easier then just actually playing the game.

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The Horde player was neither, powerless, hopeless, nor defeated during that questline. Invalid.