I was there, too. I’d counter with this; people remember the negative far more vividly, and it’s been quite some time. I still think the positives outweigh.
We squabble for resources, for sure. Where I would disagree is that it’s done out of malice (usually.) For me, this means it’s a relatively trivial, if time consuming process to let people settle into their own ecosystem after a change.
I think we can really guess on why they get kicked, and the evidence is actually how they behave on the forums. If they troll and be this toxic on the forums, how do you think they are going to act in-game?
LOL, then by your own actual definition, if the other 4 people feel that they will have more fun with kicking you then they can and should. How do you think that’s going to work out in the long run?
Calling it an unregulated chaos would only be the start …
Can you join from different servers? How does that work?
How much fun do you think it holds for them?
It’s easy to think in the short term about how something like this plays out, it’s harder to see benefit past a short term pain.
As long as they have a character on OCE/LAN/NA, which represents most people posting on this particular forum, they can join me for any content. I have Alliance and Horde characters, so faction isn’t an issue.
Ah kk, was not sure how it works.
Short term vs Long term. I think that’s the whole point of the Debuff. LONG TERM, it’s only going to help. If there are penalties, people will always pull back. You give no penalties for any action and you will ALWAYS get people who push the boundaries of acceptable behaviour.
If not for the report function still very much being an option for people genuinely ruining peoples’ fun, I’d agree. VTK and the debuff aren’t in lieu of that, though. The debuff is there to prevent abuse, and VTK is purely for player agency, to give groups the ability to determine what they do or do not want.
I’ve run thousands of random dungeons as a solo queue in my life, and while my memory isn’t perfect, there are some genuine reasons people get kicked:
I can’t remember a single time where someone got kicked because “lol it would be funny to kick this person randomly for no reason”.
Again, anecdotal evidence isn’t usually the best type of evidence, but at a certain threshold, my thousands of runs through different expansions, different types of dungeons, even different game modes now (Cata classic vs retail), are more of an observational study. If this “random, for lolz” kicking was anywhere near the issue some people in these threads claim it is, I’d see it happening.
That is all to say, people aren’t really getting kicked “for no reason” or “for the lolz”, at any meaningful frequency. It’s almost always one of the reasons outlined above, and the reason some people claim “for no reason” or “for the lolz” is because
Yep. When someone complains “kicked for no reason”, you almost have to assume unreliable narrator, and that there probably is a reason we aren’t being told.
Dude, I’m not saying i don’t believe you, however I know from personal experience if you make a post that gets flagged, you get a notification with a button that says “remove post”. If you use that button, your post gets deleted and you avoid action, because it never gets reviewed by a human.
If you leave it up, the human reviewing the post will give you a vacation. They don’t care about the topic, if you sound harsh in their head, vacation time. It is what it is, just like the VtK system.
Exactly, there’s a reason. The one kicked may not agree, but something happened. Action/ reaction, it’s that simple.
What it is, they got kicked for not working with the group or being toxic within the group. So the majority of the group agree’d with the kick, they disagree’d with the reason, and they came to the forums, and blamed it was for no reason. There is always a reason, it is just the reason they don’t like.
Unfortunately, GD tends to amplify the people who think they’re entitled to review and approve every decision someone makes that could impact another player.
Agreed, but if you have an overarching blanket penalty then this will cut down on MAYBE needing such individual sanctions.
We have rules that say if you kill somebody you will be punished. Then we have more specific rules that say how/which/who, etc. And then we have trials. But if we didn’t have the first, then we can have the wooly wild west.
The Deserter Debuff was changed to 30 minutes three months after it was first released. And M+ didn’t exist in Wrath. I’m confused by what you’re saying here.
If you’re talking about the change in War Within, that was for leaving, not for kicking. And there’s a difference between the dungeon cooldown timer and Deserter Debuff.
As I said earlier, these threads especially always seem to boil down to one person who thinks they’re the ones who should be able to decide what warrants a kick, arguing against one person who thinks each group should be able to decide what warrants a kick by vote.
Morality is tricky, and I’m no expert, but one of those seems clearly superior to the other.
That’s what I’m talking about. The recent thing Blizzard did was a blanket 30 minutes across everything that is queued. It was so dumb that it hit LFR too lol. They never should have altered what already existed because the issue of people leaving groups was going to solve itself but instead, Blizzard being Blizzard, just made everything worse.
If you are not a member of a group, you don’t get a say in how it’s run.
The sooner people accept that, the better.
just to clear guys any reasons is a good reason and valid reason to vote kick someone in fact you should do at least 1-5 kicks a day especially if its a filthy old god tainted freak gnome
Sorry mate but no one defends anything this radically unless they are actually involved with it.
Reminding us constantly that they’re allowed to treat other players badly who have done nothing wrong is pretty much an admission that they are doing it