Most people won’t be jerks when they aren’t empowered to be jerks. Which is kind of the entire point here.
How often do you actually think that happens?
No he isn’t, the other three people can still vote yes on you and you’re gone, unless they’re a premade
I don’t think the debuff is strictly required for the vote to kick system to ‘work’ without actually using it.
It really is only there for parity between leaving and being kicked.
It’s incremental. Less people are jerks because they can be removed by the vote to kick system.
There are still jerks because getting kicked and requeuing isn’t a big deal to some people, especially tanks or healers with near instant queue times.
Less of those people are jerks because the 30 minute debuff time removes their near instant queue time.
Mate, they said that they can kick you for any reason. That is NOT the same as saying they have actually done it.
I can shoot people for no reason too. Does not mean I’m going to do it or have done it. I can also put everybody who ever replies to my comments on ignore, but again, just because I can does not mean I have.
Your post that I replied to implied that there are many people here who have. I asked for actual verification that somebody has actually done this.
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Maybe. I don’t really see a ton of value in it, though.
If it were truly up to me I wouldn’t have a debuff on leaving or being kicked. I’d prefer people have the freedom. That said, I understand the reasons the debuff exists; some people do make themselves a problem.
Actually as one of the people they accuse of doing so, I’ve explicitly told them several times that I almost never initiate a kick, and I vote no more often than I vote yes, but they like to lie anyway.
I think it prevents more issues than it creates, even if the 30 minutes isn’t fun. I’m 20 minutes into a debuff right now for voluntarily leaving a dungeon, not a big deal.
I agree it’s not a big deal, I’m just very pro-leaving for any reason. I hate when people say things like “you signed up to help people finish the content.”
No. I signed up to finish the content. More importantly, I signed up to have fun - if I stop having fun, I want the full allowance to remove myself.
I think they shouldn’t be prevented from leaving, I’m just not sure there shouldn’t be consequences for leaving and potentially disrupting four other people.
This is far more directed at tanks and healers. A DPS can wait 15-20 minutes in a queue, finally get into an instance. If the DPS leaves, he has to wait 15-20 minutes to get in another one (if there were no debuff). If a tank or healer leaves, the three DPS could wait another 10 minutes or so, where the tank or healer could get in a new instance instantly.
So there’s a disparity in who’s “punished” by a person leaving the group based on role. Some might argue that’s “fair” because certain roles “are more important” than others and should have better perks. Not sure I agree with that.
But you can’t just implement the debuff on tanks and healers to make it “fair”, so everyone gets a debuff.
Yeah, I’d never argue for uneven punishments.
I’m not surprised, it’s not often I run into people that agree with me on this. For me, I think the long term benefits outweigh the frustrations with people who will inevitably abuse the freedom. If you feel free to leave at any time without feeling punished for it, I think people will enjoy their time spent more. That has knock-on effects, and I’d argue they’re good ones.
Almost at 2000 LIO keep it up!!
A different game altogether but on those forums there people were regularly complaining that all the battles were steamrolls and always took less than 5 minutes (out of 15) and were thus no fun and was all the fault of “insert company name”
I DID record 20 of my own experiences (which is admittedly not a big pool of data). Found that it certainly did happen. But in less than 20% of the time. And you had to bend the definition of a steamroll. But when I asked if anybody else could provide contrary evidence … radio silence.
TLDR - You can provide hard data and proof. You will still not convince anybody.
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I’ve asked people to join me in-game and run 10-20 dungeon run experiments a few times. Not sure it’s actually happened a single time.
When asked to substantiate, people on these forums shy away quickly.
I am always willing to admit I’m wrong if I can see it unequivocally.
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The reason why the decline, because they know if people knew the real truth, they think people would be nasty towards them. So, they resort to trolling the forums, pretending there is an issue to a non-existent problem.
They don’t want any evidence to disprove them, because they know they are making it really up.
I do think plenty of people decline simply because they don’t trust me to be honest or kind, in fairness.
I can’t really convince people otherwise.
Another reason I’m always skeptical of these stories about getting kicked for no reason.
I still fondly remember the one guy who did keep proof of him getting kicked though, and in every instance it showed him causing wipes or generally being below acceptable level for performing the role he queued for.
For some reason he continued queueing as healer or tank, even though if he would queue as DPS, it would cut down on him being kicked by 70%.
Well … there are others here who have been and still remember when they DIDN’T have the debuff. (Or at least I think it was on this thread…) and they did mention it was … suboptimal.
Humans are NOT inherently nice people. They become nice thru teaching and learning. But if there aren’t any boundaries, they will take the path of self interest. If you disagree, might I point out - COVID and the whole toilet paper issue.
I was actually going to offer recording 100 dungeon runs. They didn’t like that.
I would say they’re nice as long as being nice in a given situation doesn’t detract from their own self-interest, rather than saying they’re only nice when it benefits their own self-interest.