Maybe this is a language issue then. I know the CURRENT time is 30 mins. The developers intended the penalty to be the time it takes to do the average dungeon run. Dungeons used to take 30 mins so the debuff is 30 mins.
How long do they take now? You said fast ones with skips are 5 mins. So the average is likely more like 15 mins. Would it be reasonable to you to adjust the debuff to 15 mins instead of 30?
Logically that would mean adjusting the debuff timer to 15 mins would be rational and in line with the developer intent.
Yes. I would keep them the same but lessen them to 15 mins for both. The average dungeon is no longer 30 mins which was the intent of the penalty. The average dungeon is more like 15 mins now so it makes sense to change it to that.
They DID change it for Islands in BFA for that reason after feedback from players. Islands were on average much shorter content so the debuff for them was shorter too.
People deserve to be kicked, nobody is an exception to the rules except for new players. People that complain about dungeon kicks concern me, how toxic or how often are ou being kicked from dungeons to make a post
I think through all of this, we should remember that the deserter debuff deters a lot of toxic behavior, and while we think “well there’s not much toxic behavior anymore, so we don’t need it”, we might be missing that it’s because the debuff works as is.
Lower it to 15 minutes, a more trivial length, or remove it completely as some people want, and that toxicity floods back in.
Why? at that point keep it at an hour at that point because queued dungeons can be completed in 15 minutes or less depending on the dungeon and group. you’re just keeping the toxicity in when you keep the timer at 15 mins to vk
The straw man crap in here is just amazing. We keep saying that we’re not trying to get rid of the kick entirely. And we keep saying that we’re not the ones being kicked that it’s other players we see being kicked and yet no matter how many of these threads get made on this topic and the 14,000 times that those two details have been mentioned we keep pretending that they were never stated at all and certainly quite frequently LOL
No you were not told to come to this forum for this topic. This is what the support article says:
And I have even mentioned that if people want a timer on being able to hit “yes,” then so be it. If they believe people only hit “yes” when faced with a pop up (which I absolutely don’t) then put in a countdown on the yes button.
Also re-implement the cooldown on being able to vote kick if people happen to be doing it frequently.
You’ve been gaslit pretty hard in this thread, I can not believe that some people choose to defend how it’s “working”.
There are clear issues with how it’s functioning.
Solo players are punished in LFD “sometimes” with a kick/30 minute debuff because there are people who abuse vote kick (it’s not a good look to anyone who has been targeted unjustly with this “feature” either). Blizz’s stance is you can do it for any reason and there is no limit at all to how much it can be done. A person booted out of the dungeon in their mind “randomly” and sacked with the deserter debuff of shame even though they didn’t technically even choose to leave the content is a bad outcome.
It can be done “anonymously” which puts the players at a disadvantage completely. I want to know who initiated it. We’re handing down a literal punishment to a group member. You’re damn right a person should have the integrity to stand behind it. We don’t need a free for all in the reason field either. A simple drop down with a few common “reasons” is all that’s needed here. I could argue that since this can be abused anonymously with no consequence… it hinders actual “victims” of it’s abuse… they can’t easily identify and ignore an undesirable person they’ve interacted with.
In LFR the deserter debuff is all wrong. We’ve got a loot locked raid and anyone who backfills becomes part of a chain deserter debuff if they choose to queue again and kill the boss they missed… sounds like punishing good players again for no reason. LFR should not give a debuff if you’ve killed a boss.
In short there are many issues with votekick and the debuff. The debuff shouldn’t be 30 minutes either, 15 is more than enough. There shouldn’t be a blanket awful system like this for all queued content. Anyone who doesn’t like the topic is out of luck because until something is changed… people will keep “beating a dead horse”.
why are we acting like they’re the only victims here? not everything revolves around them. everyone gets kicked, I get kicked, your mom gets kicked, john the dad with six kids who raids for 3 hours every night gets kicked, we all get kicked. but at the end of the day we learn to move on and continue with our day because we don’t believe the world is out to get us with the vote kicks
the only thing that needs changing here is 30 min dungeon deserter debuff that’s it.
if it wasn’t anonymous then what’s stopping players from being targeted from doing the vote kick? that’s creating even more toxicity if we don’t keep it anonymous. this is so backwards lol u people don’t want toxicity yet you want to add more to it
I see new players on discord advertising themselves all the time, if you were actually active in the wow community you’d know that and yes I do believe they need a happy face by their username that looks like it was drawn by a child
We can blame player toxicity for the behavior…and blame blizzard for giving them the tool to do it with.
its overly punishing to innocent players who, by admissions in this thread and others, are being kicked for 'any reason whatsoever any time I feel like it" and not anything they did to warrant being kicked.
vets running alts who dont know how to play the game bad enough to get kicked all the time?
That literally makes less sense than anything our side has said here. lol
Yep, I am in this camp. It fits the original design and intent of the debuff. It is supposed to be about as long as an average dungeon run. Those have changed a lot since Wrath
I also think if the cooldown on kicking too often is not in game still, it needs to be brought back. People who kick too often used to find themselves unable to kick for a while.
Splitting the community isn’t usually a good idea, but what about a new player queue of some sort, where players whose accounts are less than ‘X time’ old (or a better metric perhaps?) can queue with other new players.
As well, there’s a way for veterans to queue for it, based on maybe dungeon achievement scores, time played, or a better metric.
Incentive for veteran players can be that they always get a satchel of cooperation for completing a run. There can’t be more than 1-2 veterans per run. There is no voting to kick, there is no (insert supposed toxic thing here), and you have to somehow remain in good standing in regard to the new player queue, or you’re no longer able to use it.
It would only be for current content normal dungeons. It would be a separate queue.
I am a solo player as well and I don’t need to take a look at your accolades. I just wanted a verifiable answer that you are not part of the problem. Which you aren’t. All love here not trying to pick on you. I am also a very to myself player. I play on the lowest population realms, where hardly anyone plays even with cross-realm populations appearing.
You should try to help him. And explain the game to him. And that if he is going to play to where he hinders other players more than he helps, then he will be kicked from groups.
That is the reality of things. If he is going to do dungeons, and he has such a negative impact on various groups in various circumstances that they kick him, then he needs to be prepared for that. Thats the reality of it and he should expect that or improve. If he cant understand that, and gets upset and frustrated and what not, then he most likely either shouldnt play a game with a MMO online community, or should just avoid instances and groups all together unless with friends.
Funny but, the anonymous can vote kick for any reason isn’t where it’s at. If there are even a few players abusing this… it could negatively impact the game play of many.
It’s really not, I’ve personally never had ignore not do what it’s supposed to. I have had a hard time identifying who tried to vote kick me for being afk right before the last boss in a dungeon once. Guy was so daft he didn’t realize my husband (who was in the same guild as me) wasn’t going to let him have any “fun”… he probably didn’t like my mog or me being top dps… who knows doesn’t “matter” right?
The thread was flagged and restored to their credit. People in here trying to silence players who see clear issues with how things are jiving really need to take a back seat on this issue.
Agreed, they need adjust our “tools”, change deserter debuffs duration/situation they’re given and weed out the undesirables better. This was done pretty easily when keys were getting bricked, but when the same bad actors (I highly suspect) that were causing havoc in queued content… it’s “working as intended” under a cloak of anonymity.
