Not really. By any remotely plausible definition of “abused.” A famous economist once said, “There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.”
It’s entirely possible that the current vote kick system is the one with the fewest negative tradeoffs, and thus should be kept as is, but it’s really ignoring the entire history of systems analysis to pretend that there are no negative tradeoffs.
In another vein, it’s like the old saying common in the engineering world, “Build a foolproof system, and they’ll build a bigger fool.”
it only becomes volatile when certain names show up. Until then the topic is very productive and civil. happens literally every time.
if blizzard wants to keep new players theyd better learn to keep this controlled better.
player gets abused in game with a bogus kick comes here to talk about it and gets savagely attacked and its a good way to lose a new paying customer, for certain.
Right, that’s what I’m saying. Just because it’s an imperfect solution doesn’t mean you abandon it. “The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
It’s fair for the OP to invite discussion, and I give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he/she has experienced real problems, but that doesn’t mean the OP’s proposed solutions are better than the status quo. As has been repeatedly mentioned, removing the deserter debuff for the vote kick was tried before and didn’t work as hoped.
But also you don’t have to defend an imperfect system by pretending it’s perfect. Just, “Meh, it’s the best we can do.” is sometimes all you’ve got.
I agree with that. I do disagree that it’s fair to call it ‘abuse’ any time some negative element can be found within a system, though.
Particularly when intent has to be proven to justify the verbiage; e.g. proving that someone used the VTK system exclusively to apply the 30 minute debuff.
Exactly. If I want something off my screen that I haven’t read— which is extremely rare— I hit “cancel” or “no.”
If a reason isn’t readily apparent to me in a dungeon kick— which I rarely ever see— then that “no” button gets hit. Because that tells me it’s not something that bothers me or anyone else in the group.
And if people are truly under this impression that “everyone just hits yes,”— which I still think is absolute bs, because the rare attempts at kicks that I see rarely ever pass unless it’s blatant toxicity or a long afk— then fine, put the darn cooldown on the yes button.
That has zero to do with it. I don’t pay attention to post count. I do pay attention to misinformation, which the AI did toss out.
It’s not a relevant topic, but if you want details about my life, I don’t mind sharing! Maybe then you’ll stop thinking I’m an AI.
I’m Cuban, and my native language is Spanish. My best friend is Argentine, and we started playing together three months ago. I created my characters on Quel’Thalas to play on a server that suited him better. My internet speed in the United States is significantly better than his in Argentina, so my latency would be lower than his if he played on an American server like Emerald Dream (where I used to play alone).
Since I speak Spanish natively, it was quite comfortable for me to play on Quel’Thalas, where most people also speak Spanish. So yes, that’s my story. I used to play on Emerald Dream during the Legion expansion. Before that, I lived in Cuba without internet access and played on local servers. (All this information is COMPLETELY irrelevant, but if you’re so curious about me, I don’t mind sharing—I have nothing to hide.) You can even message me in-game, and you’ll see that my English isn’t as advanced as what I use here thanks to AI.
I also think you might believe that I simply tell the AI to “SPEAK FOR ME,” and it writes everything. That’s not how it works. I write out everything I want to say in Spanish, and the AI translates it into grammatically correct English. It’s LITERALLY the same as using Google Translate, except ChatGPT translates it WAY better than Google does.
So yes, basically every word I write is 100% mine, just translated into English. If you read what I write in Spanish, you’d see that my sentences are just as detailed, and my vocabulary is exactly the same.
Botting is a question. That tends to be software driven with detection rather than individual reports, and can result in false positives. If some kid installs something on a computer, does that warrant the computer’s owner being hammered? A legitimate question, and one that causes me generally to not assume guilt when someone posts about it. Kids getting up to shenanigans? Heh, absolutely possible. You don’t tolerate botting, and neither do I. A reasonable question to ask.
But… language? Someone runs the racist card, and gets hammered. Then they post on this forum that they shouldn’t have been.
Assuming innocence is a nice concept, but… a judgement for language isn’t a routine and isn’t automated. It was already made for the language side of things before the post even happened - swearing, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, the whole bit. Someone at blizzard had to make the initial call, correct? Before the post even showed up?
Im so sorry Mirasol there is allot of trolls, attention seekers, and chatgpt has made it worse they can now rehash random things easier without having to try and asmongold been on a wow rampage as of late due to his veiws declining after he said some really bad things on stream so its riling up all his supporters.
I’m sooooo fully of poutine. This thread has really gone nowhere unfortunate. Still a couple of bad apples trying to push/bully others out so that they can try and pretend that there’s an issue with the Vote to Kick system.
Personally, I’m still happy with the 4 other players having the final say with whether or not someone stays. There are safeguards in-place, that those others pretend don’t exist…to prevent real abuse of it, and that’s why we know it’s not really an issue.
Just a couple of people doing their best to create some forum-drama
Nobody ever said the system is perfect. It is not. Nobody ever said that people were going to LIKE getting removed from a group, no matter how it is done. It is frustrating and, for some, it brings up feelings. It maybe even hurts to get removed. Blizzard does not expect people to LIKE getting kicked. They are ok with them not liking it. Nobody will like everything in game, and that in particular is not fun.
Right now the current system is the lesser of evils so to speak. As the player base changes, game mechanics change, and feedback changes, they will continue to adjust it. This expansion they added more penalties for leaving or getting kicked in both LFG and Mythic+. All based on feedback.
I don’t see them ever getting rid of the vote to kick feature though as long as we have random groups. They won’t force people to play together and they don’t expect the kicked person to like it. They also won’t be getting rid of the penalty as long as people can troll the group to try to get kicked without consequences (what used to happen before the kick penalty).
So par for the course? I try hard not to follow the streamer drama. Sort of like I don’t watch soap operas. I do appreciate the hint that that might be carried over to the forums though.
I don’t recall saying or suggesting that you were an AI, but I appreciate that you’re willing to respond.
I asked because I was curious, not because I was accusing you of something.
I suspected you were using it because of a language barrier, and that’s what I’d consider a valid use of ChatGPT, as much as I dislike ChatGPT.
The alternative was that you’d chosen the server specifically to bait out vote kicks because of the poor stereotypes leveled at LA servers. This is the only reason I asked.
But the burden’s still on you to prove that abuse is actually happening.
So far, all I’ve seen is ‘working as intended’.
And yes, This is the least bad option. Removing VTK would require removing deserter completely (or going to the manual system where the group leader has absolute power to kick unilaterally), or the auto-queue breaks.
You must either be free to leave with no downside when you get grouped with the problem child, or empowered to remove the problem child from the group if the group wants them gone.
Ive never been kicked since theyve implemented this deserter change, but I have witnessed several attempts of people trying to kick super early on the most absolutely arbitrary things like “low dps” … On the first pull, or “afk” because someone missed an elevator, or usually its just “bad” for no explaination.
And not only that, those folks will spam the kick initiation if it fails, and they try again, on cooldown, until they get that person gone.
Honestly, i have yet to see the system used on someone that actually deserved a kick.
