A very valid post. And an issue that needs to be addressed, it’s happened to me twice already, and it wasn’t cause anything was wrong either.
I think that we should just go no debuff after first boss, I see it being abused more then I see it being useful.
Neither of the above.
I don’t know how useful this would be.
It didn’t, then people figured out they could use that to bypass deserter, thus effectively removing deserter from the game.
Problem is, you and blizzard appear to have very different definitions of what constitutes ‘abuse’.
no more reasonable than mine offered, but are you going to be like others here and assume someone is lying because you dont like what they said?
I offer benefit of doubt until someone crosses obvious lines and proves themselves untrustworthy, as some do in here daily, personally.
Eh. My comments to him have been going in a reasonable fashion so far.
Am aware of the past conflicts amongst others here. For now, if things are civil, I’m content.
This is the essence: it is being indeed abused more than being useful.
In fact, no
In fact yes
Well, if and only if you accept the GD definition of ‘abuse’, which includes “did something I don’t like”, then Eau is right.
If you use the regular definition of abuse that you would find in the dictionary, Eau’s wrong.
I think a lot of us see it being abused, especially anyone literally saying that its ok to kick players for no reason at all.
Why would we NOT believe them…take them at their own words, that they’ll kick players who havent done anything wrong, if they literally tell us they do?
I have no reason to not believe someone who admits they behave in certain ways.
Okay, fine, go ahead and post your supporting evidence and cite the sources for the claims you’ve made. I’ll hear you out.
its only NOT ‘abuse’ because of blizzards current position and hands off attitude.
IF tomorrow they simply said that it IS abuse to kick players for nothing theyve done wrong, but blizzard just doesnt have the manpower to deal with it…then the ONLY thing that changed was their position…player maliciousness / spite in doing it was exactly the same.
Which is the only position that actually matters.
When the entity that both makes and enforces the rules says something about what the rules are, they are by definition correct.
Majority rule is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner. Just because the majority wants it doesn’t make it right or not toxic.
In my opinion the problem probably starts outside of WoW – too many players who weren’t raised properly.
If you’re asking “Why should I carry someone?” in a regular or heroic dungeon, especially a leveling dungeon, I’m talking to you. You shouldn’t think of it as “carrying” someone, you should think of it as helping them. If someone’s dps is bad, maybe give them advice instead of kicking them. And if nobody’s dying, who really cares? Even bad players deserve to have fun playing the game. Sure, if you’re doing a mythic +10 or something, you are allowed expectations, but a lot of people in non-competetive dungeons are just trying to see, experience and enjoy the content.
Stop your “me, me, me” attitude and show a little love and tolerance to people who aren’t as “good” as you.
Problem is, what alternative is there?
It has to include “we don’t want you to leave” (by community demands, see the Pre-season sacbrood farmer threads), and “nobody is forced to play with people they don’t want to”.
So what other system is there for throwing 5 random players together that does a better job of accomplishing both goals?
That’s certainly an opinion, that’s for sure.
There probably isn’t one. That’s why I’m speaking to the people, not the system.
Then we arrive at the inevitable conclusion here, which is the current vote kick system and rules are required for LFD to be allowed to exist.
I agree with both of these.
Realistically, changing it so that being kicked doesn’t apply deserter functionally means ‘remove deserter completely’.